Differnces in the Taijiquan

[BillK]

I wouldn't doubt that this topic has been discussed before, but seeing how I'm new here, I thought I'd ask. What are the major differences between the styles of Taijiquan (Yang, Chen, Sun, etc.)? It wasn't until recently that I even learned of the vast martial applications of Taijiquan, more specifically, Yang Taijiquan. Like many others, I only saw it as a form of "moving meditation", not knowing of the Chin Na, Shuai Jiao, and fighting applications. Thank you in advance for your responses.

 

[ChenAn]

The major difference between different style of taiji is san si jin or silk reeling (that only Chen method retains ) Supposedly, eight basic energies: peng, lu, ji, an, kao, lieh, cai, zhou are in the root of all Taijiquan methods

Some people believe Taijiquan origin starts with mythological person - a taosist who's identity has never been confirm by historical fact and only lives in oral tradition. His name Zhan Sanfeng.

Historically speaking root of taiji can be traced up to Chen Wangting 9th generation of Chen fighters at the end of Ming dynasty. What was before him history hasn't revealed so far, but there some theories ..

So from chronologically taiji traces from Chen to Yang to Wu to Sun and so on .

No matter what taiji method is practiced it is one thing is remains common taijiquan is not application driven art. Applications serves purpose of understanding and developing jins (energies) that in turn leads to formless state of response ..


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[Zeny]

I doubt there is anyone here who has working knowledge of all the styles. Even within styles there are sub-styles resulting from personal interpretations and understanding of different teachers. I practise a specific sub-style of huang taichi, and i know nothing of chen, yang, wu, sun and hao styles.

I think we should stop worrying about styles and just enjoy taichi.

 

[zzj]

I doubt there is anyone here who has working knowledge of all the styles. Even within styles there are sub-styles resulting from personal interpretations and understanding of different teachers. I practise a specific sub-style of huang taichi, and i know nothing of chen, yang, wu, sun and hao styles.

I think we should stop worrying about styles and just enjoy taichi.

Zeny has a point, what we can offer are more or less personal our understanding of what differentiates the major styles.

From my perspective:

Chen (the style i practice) is the oldest known historical form of taijiquan originating from the end of Ming / Beginning of Qing era (late 1600's to early 1700's). It is a hybrid style combining known military-based techniques with taoist breathing exercise and philosophy. The forms combine hard and soft, fast and slow movements, emphasizing 'silk reeling', which is a spiraling kind of energy infused into every movement. Chen forms are quite distinct, you can instantly recognize it by the use of stomping, jumping, fast punches and kicks in between slow and deliberate moves.

Yang style is the most widespread and popular style at the moment, and is probably what people have in mind when one mentions taijiquan. Yang style is directly descended from Chen, but there is a lot of speculation as to why the 2 styles seem to differ so much. Yang style is slow and meticulous, and does not include (as far as I can tell) fast or hard moves in forms. While some have suggested that the Yang style either discarded the hard / fast moves in order to cater to aristocratic students, or that Yang Lu Chan learned a different form of Taijiquan than what we know of as Chen Style today, my own view is that Yang style chose to concentrate on the more subtle elements and evolved as it was no longer kept within the confines of Chen Village. In fact, Yang Style is very fragmented in my view, with very different interpretations and offshoots. Zeny's Huang Style is what I would consider one of the modern offshoots of Yang.

Wu (吴) style is descended from Yang, but is recognizably different in that it is a 'small frame' style. Movements are smaller and more attention is paid to the internal mechanics.

Wu (武) or Wu-Hao in English, so as not to confuse with Wu (吴) is a relatively rare style that to me seems quite similar to Wu (吴) in that they are both small frame forms. This style is also descended from Yang, but the creator also studied in Chen Village and combined elements of Chen small frame into his style.

Sun style is the most modern of the bunch. It is descended from Wu-Hao, but takes in elements of other so called 'internal' arts such as xingyi and bagua, so if you are familiar with the characteristics of these styles, you would be able to recognize them in Sun forms.

There is another major (arguably) style known as 'Zhaobao', after the village it originated from. The origins of this style is quite controversial, as it is claimed by some practitioners that it pre-dates Chen style, while others, especially Chen stylists, who say that it descended from Small frame Chen. I am least familiar with this style so I don't think I can comment on the characteristics.

 

[zzj]

In addition, there are also other styles of Taijiquan such as Wudang (origins unclear, as it claims to be descended from Zhang San Feng, who is a mythological figure), Lee style, which is similarly shrouded in mystery, Fu style, that supposedly combines Chen, Yang, Sun and Bagua. I'm sure there are many other obscure styles out there, including unrelated styles that claim to be taijiquan (*ahem*Tibetan White Crane tai chi) or 'tai chi' forms within other styles.. (pai lum, Oom Young Doe 'Tai CHi CHung' etc.)

 

[23rdwave]

No matter what taiji method is practiced it is one thing is remains common taijiquan is not application driven art. Applications serves purpose of understanding and developing jins (energies) that in turn leads to formless state of response ..

ChenAn speaks the truth. IMA is not about application it is about awareness.

 

[BillK]

Thank you all for the responses, they're very informative.

 

[BillK]

In addition, there are also other styles of Taijiquan such as Wudang (origins unclear, as it claims to be descended from Zhang San Feng, who is a mythological figure), Lee style, which is similarly shrouded in mystery, Fu style, that supposedly combines Chen, Yang, Sun and Bagua. I'm sure there are many other obscure styles out there, including unrelated styles that claim to be taijiquan (*ahem*Tibetan White Crane tai chi) or 'tai chi' forms within other styles.. (pai lum, Oom Young Doe 'Tai CHi CHung' etc.)

So it would seem the latter mentioned styles (White Crane, Oom Young Doe etc.) are just a bastardized version of traditional styles such as Chen and Yang.

 

[BillK]

I doubt there is anyone here who has working knowledge of all the styles. Even within styles there are sub-styles resulting from personal interpretations and understanding of different teachers. I practise a specific sub-style of huang taichi, and i know nothing of chen, yang, wu, sun and hao styles.

I think we should stop worrying about styles and just enjoy taichi.

It isn't a matter of "worrying" about styles, but a wanting to understand the art, it's differences, history, martial application etc. I believe knowing these things would help the practitioner to gain a deep respect and admiration for the art, thus making him a better artist. There is more to the arts than forms and techniques, which I'm sure you know.

 

[mograph]

Conceptually, they're similar, when compared to other martial arts. Many of their differences lie in the postures, the size of the frame (how extended your body is) and the tempo of the movements.

There's no international body that defines the styles, so none of their characteristics are cast in stone and what you read may not apply to a local club. Also, differences between teachers may dictate a course of study more than the difference between styles: you may like Yang Style based on research, but if a local Chen teacher is better than the local Yang teacher, you might be better off studying Chen style.

On these pages, they attempt to sort out some of the differences; others in this thread may offer other pages. (Take the "fast & easy" with a grain of salt, of course.) Remember again, there is no international authority across styles. Gather what you can, and make your own judgement.

Tai Chi Style Differences: A Brief Guide
How Do I Choose a Tai Chi Style?

 

[kuniggety]

So it would seem the latter mentioned styles (White Crane, Oom Young Doe etc.) are just a bastardized version of traditional styles such as Chen and Yang.

I wouldn't call them bastardized versions but rather derivative realizations. I am not a taiji expert but have some experience with both Yang and Chen. Understand that just because you're studying Chen doesn't mean you're practicing the same Chen as someone else! I specifically trained the laojia form but there are many form versions and individual interpretations.

 

[BillK]

Conceptually, they're similar, when compared to other martial arts. Many of their differences lie in the postures, the size of the frame (how extended your body is) and the tempo of the movements.

There's no international body that defines the styles, so none of their characteristics are cast in stone and what you read may not apply to a local club. Also, differences between teachers may dictate a course of study more than the difference between styles: you may like Yang Style based on research, but if a local Chen teacher is better than the local Yang teacher, you might be better off studying Chen style.

On these pages, they attempt to sort out some of the differences; others in this thread may offer other pages. (Take the "fast & easy" with a grain of salt, of course.) Remember again, there is no international authority across styles. Gather what you can, and make your own judgement.

Tai Chi Style Differences: A Brief Guide
How Do I Choose a Tai Chi Style?

Thank you.

 

[BillK]

I wouldn't call them bastardized versions but rather derivative realizations. I am not a taiji expert but have some experience with both Yang and Chen. Understand that just because you're studying Chen doesn't mean you're practicing the same Chen as someone else! I specifically trained the laojia form but there are many form versions and individual interpretations.

Ah, I see! Thanks for the clarification.

 

[zzj]

So it would seem the latter mentioned styles (White Crane, Oom Young Doe etc.) are just a bastardized version of traditional styles such as Chen and Yang.

Bastardized is quite a strong word to use, although I have to admit I did have my bias when it comes to 'tai chi' forms in arts such as tibetan white crane / oom yung doe versions. Have a look at the videos below and come to your own conclusions...

Different variations of Taijiquan really run the gamut, from possibly genuine historical variations, to derivative versions, modern refinements, adaptations, to deviations, mimicry and indeed bastardizations

 

[zzj]

I wouldn't call them bastardized versions but rather derivative realizations. I am not a taiji expert but have some experience with both Yang and Chen. Understand that just because you're studying Chen doesn't mean you're practicing the same Chen as someone else! I specifically trained the laojia form but there are many form versions and individual interpretations.

Good point about the variations within the same style. Every teacher teaches slightly differently, my forms have a slightly different flavor as they come from the Zhu family and not the Chen Family (although we are all under the Chen umbrella), even the theoretical emphasis differ between teachers. It is not hard to see how the different major styles and offshoots came to be as things change and get tweaked (consciously or not) every generation and every teacher teaches what works for them and every student discovers what works for themselves...

 

[BillK]

It's not so much about me deriving a conclusion, but about understanding the difference in the taiji styles. If I take Yajiqun, most likely will be Yang style.

 

[zzj]

It's not so much about me deriving a conclusion, but about understanding the difference in the taiji styles. If I take Yajiqun, most likely will be Yang style.

Found this very interesting video showing Chen and Yang side by side, its fascinating that you can see so many parallels and even both practitioners doing essentially the same movements differently at the same time.

EDIT: These are examples of mainstream Chen/Yang forms performed by direct descendants of the originators of the styles (Chen Zhenglei and Yang Jun). I'm still amazed at the similarity... *watching again*

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm sure there are many other obscure styles out there, including unrelated styles that claim to be taijiquan (*ahem*Tibetan White Crane tai chi) or 'tai chi' forms within other styles.. (pai lum, Oom Young Doe 'Tai CHi CHung' etc.)

Im a Tibetan White Crane guy. We don't claim to be taiji.

We do have a form that is done slowly, called Needle in Cotton. It's not taiji. We don't claim that it is.

 

[Flying Crane]

Bastardized is quite a strong word to use, although I have to admit I did have my bias when it comes to 'tai chi' forms in arts such as tibetan white crane / oom yung doe versions. Have a look at the videos below and come to your own conclusions...

Ok. Geezuz. I have no idea what that was, or where it came from. It's not Needle in Cotton. Not even a vague bastardized version. It's not Tibetan White Crane. It looks to me like someone made it up, or it's meant to be a qi-gong, or someone adopted something from somewhere else. Poorly.

This is not Tibetan White Crane. Please understand that.

 

[BillK]

Found this very interesting video showing Chen and Yang side by side, its fascinating that you can see so many parallels and even both practitioners doing essentially the same movements differently at the same time.

EDIT: These are examples of mainstream Chen/Yang forms performed by direct descendants of the originators of the styles (Chen Zhenglei and Yang Jun). I'm still amazed at the similarity... *watching again*

Now that is awesome! Thanks for sharing that. A very good visual of the differences!