Different types of Tang Soo Do?

[MBuzzy]

Master K,

Would you be willing to cite specific examples of the differences in philosohies? What in particular are you referring to that has made SBD and TSD so different?

I only ask because I personally have not seen them.

I fully understand the heartburn that many have over the name changes and trademark/copyright issues. I was on a "break" from training during tha time, so I wasnt' around to witness it, but I have seen the aftermath. Much of it is VERY evident in Korea, as it is still a VERY VERY sore subject with the older Masters there.

Aside from those legal issues and the emphasis of some hyung over others, I haven't seen any signification differences in my experience.

 

[B.Redfield]

MasterK states
"one must keep in mind that the some of the Grandmasters that left the US Tang Soo Do Federation were sued or threatened to be sued by that organization and as a result these Grandmasters were forced to modify the forms in one way or another."

I disagree, to my mind, when you look at when these different Organizations were formed, the material that was current at the time is more in line with what they have as curriculum, with minor changes for some, evolving as it were, and others have created their own forms, to further identify themselves as separate entities.

TANG SOO!
redtandsoodo.com

 

[MBuzzy]

I have noticed that most of the separated TSD organizations are very interested in maintaining their heritage and staying true to the original philosophies that they were taught. I see no problem with that. There are also a great deal of stories floating around out there regarding the circumstances under which the differnet older masters left the federation....I imagine that the true is somewhere in there, but in general, not as bad as people make it sound.

 

[Master K]

MasterK states
"one must keep in mind that the some of the Grandmasters that left the US Tang Soo Do Federation were sued or threatened to be sued by that organization and as a result these Grandmasters were forced to modify the forms in one way or another."

I disagree, to my mind, when you look at when these different Organizations were formed, the material that was current at the time is more in line with what they have as curriculum, with minor changes for some, evolving as it were, and others have created their own forms, to further identify themselves as separate entities.

TANG SOO!
redtandsoodo.com

Master Redfield,

I do not think that some of the Grandmasters of these other organizations would share your opinion. Some of it is a matter of public record, and some of it I have gathered through candid conversations with the individuals involved. Anyway...it really doesn't matter much. After all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and viewpoint on topics.

Respectfully,
Master K.

 

[Master K]

Master K,

Would you be willing to cite specific examples of the differences in philosohies? What in particular are you referring to that has made SBD and TSD so different?

I only ask because I personally have not seen them.

I fully understand the heartburn that many have over the name changes and trademark/copyright issues. I was on a "break" from training during tha time, so I wasnt' around to witness it, but I have seen the aftermath. Much of it is VERY evident in Korea, as it is still a VERY VERY sore subject with the older Masters there.

Aside from those legal issues and the emphasis of some hyung over others, I haven't seen any signification differences in my experience.

MBuzzy,

I haven't been here in quite some time. I will send you a PM regarding your question.

Respectfully,
Master K.

 

[Gi1]

Dear MBuzy

Could you tel me what the 10 Ship Dan Kuhm are as I haven't encountered them as yet.

Thans

 

[B.Redfield]

Master K,

After re-reading my post I see the way I wrote it was not how it was in my mind, as is the case many times on the web. I did not mean to imply that the MDK did not jump to sue or threaten, that was always their modus operandai, case in point, not long ago look what happened to a certain high dan I'm sure you know, who only made a video tape and was attacked my the MDK, to their great loss, he has left.
Anyway, This use of heavy handedness is of course what happened back in late 75 when became it nessessary to hold the famous meeting, really to take control of the US money wagon. Many very senior members were literally swept aside so the founder could place his son in the head position of the new ustsdmdkf inplace of the many much more seniors here who worked so hard to grow TSD it was after this that many left to form their own organizations. And being as it was his creation who could really blame him for keeping it in the family. I could go on and on

 

[MBuzzy]

Dear MBuzy

Could you tel me what the 10 Ship Dan Kuhm are as I haven't encountered them as yet.

Thans

They are just another set of hyung. Chances are that you won't run into them either. They were published in the Hangul version of Volume 2 and there are some Koreans around that still know them as they were intended, but for some reason, they never made their way to the states or to other countries.

 

[foggymorning162]

Something that can be very revealing is the name of the organization. For example, some name the organization after the grandmaster (Cheezic), some name it based on some permutation of the name of the style (International Tang Soo Do Federation), some use Korean to convey the point (Ki Guk Kwan - American school); I personally feel that the name can reavel a lot about that particular organization or style.

I think you can read whatever you want into a name you just need to make the right arguements to make your point, but just for arguements sake if you were to start your own org. what would you name it and why?

 

[MBuzzy]

I think you can read whatever you want into a name you just need to make the right arguements to make your point, but just for arguements sake if you were to start your own org. what would you name it and why?

I'm not quite sure that I follow you...It seems to me that the name of an organization should most certainly have something to do with the intent and specific permutation. For example, an organization who chooses to use the Moo Duk Kwan name, is this to honor their heritage, to indicate their lineage? Or Mi Guk Kwan, is obviously an American version or branch of the Korean art. An organization named after their grandmaster is obviously making a statement regarding the grandmaster's influence to their teaching. Each individual should examine this.

Personally, I would never start my own organization, but for argument's sake, the name that I would prefer to use, I would not be allowed to use due to copyright. Personally, if I were to name a TSD organization, I feel that I would owe credit to my lineage in the name.

 

[Chris Freeman]

A friend of mine took Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan back in the late 80's and early 90's. All of his belt ranks are Kukkiwon certified, but his school wasn't teaching Palgwae or Taegeuk patterns. What would be the most likely set of forms being taught by TKD Moo Duk Kwan/Tang Soo Do back at that time?

 

[Dirty Dog]

A friend of mine took Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan back in the late 80's and early 90's. All of his belt ranks are Kukkiwon certified, but his school wasn't teaching Palgwae or Taegeuk patterns. What would be the most likely set of forms being taught by TKD Moo Duk Kwan/Tang Soo Do back at that time?

If he didn't learn the Taegeuks, it could be argued that his KKW rank is invalid. Because the taegeuks are required by the KKW standard.
Tang Soo Do typically uses the Pinan forms. Moo Duk Kwan primarily use the Palgwae or Pinan forms.

 

[gyoja]

A friend of mine took Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan back in the late 80's and early 90's. All of his belt ranks are Kukkiwon certified, but his school wasn't teaching Palgwae or Taegeuk patterns. What would be the most likely set of forms being taught by TKD Moo Duk Kwan/Tang Soo Do back at that time?

TSD would be the Kee Cho hyungs and the Pyung Ahn hyungs for the gup ranks.

 

[Dirty Dog]

TSD would be the Kee Cho hyungs and the Pyung Ahn hyungs for the gup ranks.

I don't think the Kicho forms are particularly specific to any system. We teach them as well. They're thought of as "things you learn before you learn real forms".

 

[gyoja]

I don't think the Kicho forms are particularly specific to any system. We teach them as well. They're thought of as "things you learn before you learn real forms".

I agree. I was just mentioning them since newer offshoots of TSD created new forms mixed in with the Kicho forms.

 

[Chris Freeman]

I've never been involved with World Tae Kwon Do, The Kukkiwon, Moo Duk Kwan, or Tang Soo Do, so I really don't have an opinion nor any facts about the organizations, but I was interested in the forms. I asked my buddy and he couldn't remember which forms he tested with, that was when we were in high school back in the late 1980's and early 1990's. I was trying to ascertain whether or not they were "traditional taekwondo forms" or if they were some of the newer creations like the Palgwae, Taegeuk, or Songahm forms. I remember they were H-patterns when we cross trained.

 

[SirKicksAlot]

I was wondering what are the main differences between the different types of Tang Soo Do. For example, what is the difference between MGK, Cheezik, and ATA/UTC? Is one maybe better then the other?

Besides the personal flair of the instructor, the majority of differences seem to center around what set of hyungs they use and what set of il soo sik are used. Il soo sik and sam soo sik can be all over the place with no standardization, whereas hyungs tend to have 2 camps. The traditional hyung imported from Shotokan and the hyung sets developed by Hwang Kee.

 

[Buka]

I’ve known a lot of Tang Soo guys. I’ve taught in a few of their Tang Soo dojos. I wasn’t teaching their art, I was teaching what they asked me to teach.

I wasn’t involved much with their kata, I don’t remember if they were all the same.

The differences in their dojos were the same differences I’ve found in all dojos - everyone teaches differently.