I don't doubt your experience. I was trying make the point that one shouldnt pigeonholed KKW TKD. Kicking is highly emphasized in Kukki Tae Kwon Do ( I'm sure no surprise to anyone) and they have a sophisticated understanding of it. KKW TKDist employ their kicks in a variety of ways and rely on no single manner of execution. For example, fast, snappy kicks meant for speed and precision, the kicking equivalent of a jab, will probably have minimal hip engagement and rotation while a power blow will have full hip engagement and rotation, perhaps similar to what you have seen in Shotokan or TSD schools.
Is Tang Soo Do the same as Taekwondo?
- Thread starter TKDJUDO
- Start date
Yesin fact, the hip-driven thrusting side-kick is one of the 'signature dishes' of TKD.
It's important not to be misled by what you may see in TKD sparring. And even there, I'm pretty sure that plenty of the Olympic foot-taggers could, confronted with a stack of one-inch pine boards, do an admirable job of breaking, using that and other basic 'power' kicks. But power techs like that won't gain them points under tournament conditions, so... The point is, context is crucial, and most TKDists I've seen make full use of hip rotation to ramp up the power of their kicks when that's what's called for.
It's as f2f says: think of those quick kicks as the equivalent of a jab. The great boxers had, and have, lightening quick jabs, but their knockout punches don't look like jabs.
matt.m
Senior Master
For what it is worth........I know in Moo Sul Kwan when we do a side kick for hapkido or Tae Kwon Do for example> The higher more pulled backed chamber of the side kick the more correct and therefore powerful it is.
For example: I can stand 4 inches away from some one in sparring stance and I will pull my right knee to left shoulder, thrust the leg out with full extension and proper hip rotation. You will know if you do the hip rotation correctly if the heel of your back foot is pointing at your target.
Anyway from 4 inches away from opponent or kick bag I can still kick head high.
Just my .02 to add a bit to Exile.
For example: I can stand 4 inches away from some one in sparring stance and I will pull my right knee to left shoulder, thrust the leg out with full extension and proper hip rotation. You will know if you do the hip rotation correctly if the heel of your back foot is pointing at your target.
Anyway from 4 inches away from opponent or kick bag I can still kick head high.
Just my .02 to add a bit to Exile.
Maybe?...Depending on your instructor and lineage.
No?...In current times, in the strictest sense, they are completely different styles.
Yes?...In the past when TSD and TKD were generic, interchangeable terms that were applied to a number of Korean MAs.
.and there is no difference in sword arts from Korea either, or sword arts from anywhere for that matter .and no difference in computers, cars, shoes, shirts, painters, craftsman, politics, governments, food .they are all just groups of things that are similar, hence they are the same.
Very simple.
(btw I am being sarcastic. I know that the internet is not the best means of conveying sarcasm, which I will agree is the lowest form of wit, but I have been up for a while so please forgive me this indulgence )
All the best.
mtabone
JWLuiza
Black Belt
So Iron Fist is the same as Hun gar and Choy le fut and Praying Mantis?
More in the sense that Yang & Chen are both still Taiji.
JWLuiza
Black Belt
I was thinking more along the lines of Yugo and Lamborghini both being cars....
An oversimplification, actually. There is so little different between Dangsudo and Taegwondo. Blocking, kicking, punching, all karate based. Forms may vary from school to school, but all are derivations or remixes of Shorin-ryu kata. The language is the same, the words are the same, it's just a different accent.
More like two different models of the same GM automobile.
I would say that TKD has made substantial moves to differentiate it from TSD. Most TKD schools devote 90% or more to kicking techniques, where most TSD schools still tend to have a better mix. Yes, they still have a lot in common, but they are growing apart very quickly.
Emphasis on one set of techniques is not much of a difference. They're still both using the karate vocabulary.
Part of the problem we're having is that we are talking as though there is a simple unitary denotation of 'taekwondo'. But there isn't; my viewpoint is very similar to Errant's, because my lineage, Song Moo Kwan (an almost word-for-word translation of Shotokan) has never strayed very far from its roots (like those of the other Kwans) in Japanese Karate, and the version of TKD that I study and practice is similar in intent, especially in its SD applications, to karate. But there's a whole continuum of styles and objectives within TKD. And that's just the beginning of the problem...
... because you have to define better what you mean when you ask, is X the same as Y? In terms of martial arts, what are we talking about, really? Basic elements, partly; how they're put together, partly; what the strategic 'master plan' is, partly, and so on. I've seen enough of the FMAs, and other KMAs such as Combat Hapkido, to be pretty sure that TKD is not the same as either, because TKD consistently offers different solutions to a given self-defense problem than either of those do. But in a given street confrontation, does TKD (taught with the intent of providing you with robust, effective, realistic techs) dictate that you do something very different from what TSD teaches you? My impression, from the TSD I've seen, is that it doesn't. I suspect Upnorthkyosa and I would want to do very similar things in the face of a given violence-initiating move. Maybe TSD has a different curriculum from my school, but there are probably a lot of TKD schools whose curricula are at least as different. I don't know that there's enough of a difference to make a difference, in the realm of crucial action.
Let's face it, the only thing that isn't different from X is X itself; to me, the important question is, how different are the two things you're asking about. I just don't see that much difference between TSD and TKD, from that point of view...
... because you have to define better what you mean when you ask, is X the same as Y? In terms of martial arts, what are we talking about, really? Basic elements, partly; how they're put together, partly; what the strategic 'master plan' is, partly, and so on. I've seen enough of the FMAs, and other KMAs such as Combat Hapkido, to be pretty sure that TKD is not the same as either, because TKD consistently offers different solutions to a given self-defense problem than either of those do. But in a given street confrontation, does TKD (taught with the intent of providing you with robust, effective, realistic techs) dictate that you do something very different from what TSD teaches you? My impression, from the TSD I've seen, is that it doesn't. I suspect Upnorthkyosa and I would want to do very similar things in the face of a given violence-initiating move. Maybe TSD has a different curriculum from my school, but there are probably a lot of TKD schools whose curricula are at least as different. I don't know that there's enough of a difference to make a difference, in the realm of crucial action.
Let's face it, the only thing that isn't different from X is X itself; to me, the important question is, how different are the two things you're asking about. I just don't see that much difference between TSD and TKD, from that point of view...
I can see that changing, especially with olympic TKD. The vocabulary, in terms of kata, kihon, and kumite, is giving way to a purely sport focused art. Heck, some of these dojangs hardly practice kihon and kata. It's only a matter of time before they are discarded.
I think of this in terms of biologic speciation. Eventually, these arts will reach a point where they no longer can reproduce together.
This is only true of Olympic TKD, and then only of sparring. Kukki Taegwondo's pumsae and kihon are still karate based, and there are few completely sport oriented dojang in the WTF.
