Different Dummy = Different wing chun?

[hunschuld]

Not to long ago while overseas I spent some time working on a traditional stake in the ground. The more common wall or stand dummy is a more Modern Hong Kong outgrowth due to the space limitations and apartment living found in Hong Kong.

One thing that I found was that movements on the Stake dummy end up being performed in subtly different ways emphasizing the close body fighting and grappling.

Has anyone else played with a stake dummy and if so did you find this as well?

 

[geezer]

Not to long ago while overseas I spent some time working on a traditional stake in the ground. The more common wall or stand dummy is a more Modern Hong Kong outgrowth due to the space limitations and apartment living found in Hong Kong.

One thing that I found was that movements on the Stake dummy end up being performed in subtly different ways emphasizing the close body fighting and grappling.

Has anyone else played with a stake dummy and if so did you find this as well?

Interesting observations!

Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to work on a true stake dummy. The closest thing would be some cheesy dummies with tubular metal bodies on plate stands anchored to the ground. I sure they didn't provide the kind of feedback that the real, old-time stake dummies would have ...you know, the hardwood dummies set with a bit of play in a deep socket in the floor.

What I've heard is that the old "stake dummies" had a heaviness to their movement that gave a different feel and that the earlier versions of the dummy forms (including the Yip Man) lineage had movements where you would step behind the dummy and could "take its back". Both of these characteristics could work with training grappling and close range work.

 

[geezer]

Hey the rest of you out there....wake up and post!!! Keep this WC sub-forum alive.

 

[wckf92]

Not to long ago while overseas I spent some time working on a traditional stake in the ground. The more common wall or stand dummy is a more Modern Hong Kong outgrowth due to the space limitations and apartment living found in Hong Kong.

One thing that I found was that movements on the Stake dummy end up being performed in subtly different ways emphasizing the close body fighting and grappling.

Has anyone else played with a stake dummy and if so did you find this as well?

Just curious but do you know how deep it was buried?

 

[hunschuld]

Just curious but do you know how deep it was buried?

That is a good question. Sorry to say I never thought about asking. The dummy was over 60years old so I would guess it was deep.

 

[geezer]

....The dummy was over 60 years old so I would guess it was deep.

People have said the same thing about me! Well maybe not so deep

But seriously, was it buried solidly and rigidly like a fencepost or was is set in a hole with some give like you see in some of the movies?

 

[hunschuld]

People have said the same thing about me! Well maybe not so deep

But seriously, was it buried solidly and rigidly like a fencepost or was is set in a hole with some give like you see in some of the movies?

It had a bit of give but not alot. I think over time the more it is used the loser it gets. I know that over the years dirt was added around the dummy where it entered the ground.Have to keep it upright.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Hey the rest of you out there....wake up and post!!! Keep this WC sub-forum alive.

I'd rather go to sleep, dream, wake up, and continue this drama.

"Stake in the ground".

 

[Callen]

Not to long ago while overseas I spent some time working on a traditional stake in the ground. The more common wall or stand dummy is a more Modern Hong Kong outgrowth due to the space limitations and apartment living found in Hong Kong.

One thing that I found was that movements on the Stake dummy end up being performed in subtly different ways emphasizing the close body fighting and grappling.

Has anyone else played with a stake dummy and if so did you find this as well?

Great post! Nice to see some new discussions on the WC sub-forum.

I’ve been on a stake dummy, it was very rigid compared to Koo Sang’s more prevalent Hong Kong design. Working a rigid dummy forced me to change the way I gave and received the energy that I put into it; but the fact that it was a stake in the ground didn't really alter my understanding of Wing Chun. I actually liked it because even though I had to adapt to the different pressure and power generation, it confirmed that the system as I train it can remain germane under unique conditions.

Does a different dummy = different Wing Chun? Maybe, but why do we train the dummy? IMO the opposite might be a more accurate assessment, different Wing Chun = different dummy. How we interpret the entire Wing Chun system and its goals in general, should consistently reflect the way we train and develop all the tools, applications and drills etc…

 

[hunschuld]

Working a rigid dummy forced me to change the way I gave and received the energy that I put into it; but the fact that it was a stake in the ground didn't really alter my understanding of Wing Chun. I actually liked it because even though I had to adapt to the different pressure and power generation, it confirmed that the system as I train it can remain germane under unique conditions.

Yes, that is one of the things I found as well!

Another was the ability to step in and the different angles I could use. This may be more individual since my shoulders are fairly wide,For example I have to sit tilted in a BMW X3. When stepping in on stand dummies the crossbars restrict me. I did not have this issue on the stake dummy and therefore was able to do things differently.