Differences between Kenpo and Kempo?

[youngbraveheart]

Regardless if you're Kenpo or Kempo, I think if we are from one of the major Kenpo/Kempo branches that extend from Professor William Chow we are all "brothers and sisters."

Shihan John James posted a thread in the "Seminars, Camps, Events & Tournaments" about a Professor William K.S. 'Thunderbolt' Chow Memorial to be held in February where the following Kenpo/Kempo will be represented:

Ed Parker's American Kenpo (Mr. Ed Parker, Jr.)
Kajukenbo (Sijo Emperado / GM Emil Bautista)
Shaolin Kenpo (GGM Castro)
Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo/Chinese Kempo Kai (Master Bill Chun, Jr.)
Nick Cerio's Kenpo (Shihan John James)
Kosho-Ryu Kenpo (GM Thomas Barrow Mitose)

I don't know about you, but I am looking forward to this Memorial Seminar. (I don't want to wait until February.) I am looking forward to seeing these different Kenpo/Kempo Masters show what their style is all about. I don't think anything like this will ever happen again in my lifetime in one place. I look forward to seeing my "brothers and sisters" there!

 

[Dreamer]

How many of you Kenpo/Kempo martial artists are going to the Seminar for Professor Chow in February (in SF)? This appears to me to be a once in a lifetime opportunity to have these masters together in one place...I can't wait to see what the differences are between Kajukenbo, American Kenpo, Shaolin Kenpo, Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo/Chinese Kempo, NCK, and Mitose's Kenpo.

 

[Dragon Snake/Diamond Step]

Hello,
I have been reading quite a few of the translations that "Mr. Patrick McCarthy" has put into numerous books in the last few years.
Mr. Patrick McCarthy translated what he could (very difficult due to misprint as it was handed down with writng errors, human errors), The Bible of Karate, "Bubishi".

There are many explanations he refers to and several different "Bubishi", but obviously the same book (Patrick McCarthy statement).

One of the writings regarding Kempo coming from China to Okinawa to Japan is this, Patrick MCCarthy writes:
A sixth possibility is that the "Bubishi" was brought to Okinawa by Uechi Kanbun (1877-1948), the founder of Uechi-ryu. The Uechi-ryu karate-do tradition tells us Uechi went to Fuzhou (china) in 1897 where he ultimatly studied Guangdong Shaolin Temple Tiger Boxing directly under master Zhou Zihe (Shu Shiwa in Japanese).
One of Uechi Kanbun's students, Tomoyose (Tomoyori) Ryuyu (1897-1970),
an accomplished student of the fighting traditions, dedicated most of his life to writing an analysis of "kempo", vital point striking, and the application of Chinese herbal medicine. Entitled Kempo Karate-jutsu Hiden (Secrets of Kempo Karate-jutsu), now owned by the Uechi family, addressed anumber of articles identical to the "Bubishi". Unfortunatly Tomoyose died before he was able to complete this analysis. The simularities are too frequent to doubt that the Uechi family once possessed a copy of the Bubishi.

I have noticed many connections with Kempo regarding the Medical side.
I remember a student of Hanshi Bruce's saying the real truth did not come out until Mitose was to write his last book. (he said, he did not tell the whites the true way). Just a thought, regarding some of the information that was given to Hanshi (if you want to believe or not) prior to Mitose dying.

Reminds me of a deathbed declaration, who say's it is always the truth?
Does give credence...or not.

The Bubishi is considered the "Bible of Karate" that came out of China to Okinawa then on to Japan. The term being the most popular now, which is Katate-do. I recommend this book for everyone in the Martial Arts.

Dave mentioned on the San Jose Kenpo board, we are all from the same denomination of Kenpo, I like that and it is very correct. Being from James Mitose!
Regards, Gary

Hi Gary "GAB",
I hope you can add some history connection between Okinawa Grand Masters and my Grand Master that i have studied under, 5days per week, for 10 yrs. He teaches "Jim-Tzu Kempo, Dragon Snake". I learned Diamond steps, stick fighting, and all the strikes as well as Prana-Bindu conditioning. I loved the power it generates. I practice it all as part of my cardio routines. One of the three of us that studied under Master Jimenez, went on to open his own Dragon Snake MMA dojo.
I entered amateur MMA to test it out in an aggressive situation against another skilled fighter. I loved it! I won. But so limited by the rules of Amateur or even pro MMA, all the endless striking techinques i had trained for could not be used. The techniques he taught me are so rarely seen in MMA. The closest applied technique style in MMA that i have seen was by Cung Le while he was fighting under Strike Force with a record of 9-3. After he switched to UFC his Martial Arts Skill faded and he began fighting like everyone else....and he started losing... In my opinion, he should have stuck with his true martial arts technique/style... it was awesome to see executed and it was working in the cage.
My sen-sey's name is Grand Master Louis Jimenez. 5th Degree Black Belt Master Instructor in "Chinese Kempo(A modern method of Combat Self-Defense). He explained that his father was in the military during Korean war and he grew up in Okinawa on one of the Islands, training under his grand master, along with other grand masters that would fight each other in sparring but full contact at high levels.
His direct lineage from Grand Master William Chow.
It would be interesting if you or people you know, know of my sen-sey and that part of history. Where he trained and if he is remembered.
Thank you, Marco 1st Degree Black Belt Chinese Kempo

 

[Dragon Snake/Diamond Step]

Regardless if you're Kenpo or Kempo, I think if we are from one of the major Kenpo/Kempo branches that extend from Professor William Chow we are all "brothers and sisters."

Shihan John James posted a thread in the "Seminars, Camps, Events & Tournaments" about a Professor William K.S. 'Thunderbolt' Chow Memorial to be held in February where the following Kenpo/Kempo will be represented:

Ed Parker's American Kenpo (Mr. Ed Parker, Jr.)
Kajukenbo (Sijo Emperado / GM Emil Bautista)
Shaolin Kenpo (GGM Castro)
Go Shin Jitsu Kenpo/Chinese Kempo Kai (Master Bill Chun, Jr.)
Nick Cerio's Kenpo (Shihan John James)
Kosho-Ryu Kenpo (GM Thomas Barrow Mitose)

I don't know about you, but I am looking forward to this Memorial Seminar. (I don't want to wait until February.) I am looking forward to seeing these different Kenpo/Kempo Masters show what their style is all about. I don't think anything like this will ever happen again in my lifetime in one place. I look forward to seeing my "brothers and sisters" there!

Hi "Youngbraveheart",
Only seeing your post now because of a recent search on google. I would have loved to go to this Memorial and event to share what i was taught and to see others techniques.
I hope you can add some history connection between Okinawa Grand Masters and my Grand Master that i have studied under, 5days per week, for 10 yrs. He teaches "Jim-Tzu Kempo, Dragon Snake". I learned Diamond steps, stick fighting, and all the strikes as well as Prana-Bindu conditioning. I loved the power it generates. I practice it all as part of my cardio routines. One of the three of us that studied under Master Jimenez, went on to open his own Dragon Snake MMA dojo.
I entered amateur MMA to test it out in an aggressive situation against another skilled fighter. I loved it! I won. But so limited by the rules of Amateur or even pro MMA, all the endless striking techinques i had trained for could not be used. The techniques he taught me are so rarely seen in MMA. The closest applied technique style in MMA that i have seen was by Cung Le while he was fighting under Strike Force with a record of 9-3. After he switched to UFC his Martial Arts Skill faded and he began fighting like everyone else....and he started losing... In my opinion, he should have stuck with his true martial arts technique/style... it was awesome to see executed and it was working in the cage.
My sen-sey's name is Grand Master Louis Jimenez. 5th Degree Black Belt Master Instructor in "Chinese Kempo(A modern method of Combat Self-Defense). He explained that his father was in the military during Korean war and he grew up in Okinawa on one of the Islands, training under his grand master, along with other grand masters that would fight each other in sparring but full contact at high levels.
His direct lineage from Grand Master William Chow.
It would be interesting if you or people you know, know of my sen-sey and that part of history. Where he trained and if he is remembered.
Thank you, Marco 1st Degree Black Belt Chinese Kempo

 

[Dragon Snake/Diamond Step]

It has always been spelled with a "N".
1. Yes this certificate issued to Bruce Juchnik by James Mitose spells Kenpo with a "N".

2. Thomas Young told me personally that Mitose spelled Kenpo with a "N".

3. In a copy of a letter I have from Thomas Young to Robert Trias, Prof. Young spelled Kenpo with a "N" in every reference to the style, and signed the letter "Prof. Thomas Young, Oldest Living Student of Kosho-Shorei Kenpo".

4. In every copy of the "Kosho Shorei Newsletter" that I have from 1982 to 1985, Kenpo is always spelled with a "N". And Mr Juchnik was one of the editors of that newsletter.

5. In the 1988 4 part series on the "History of Kenpo" in "Fighting Arts International" magazine by Harry Cook, Mr. Juchnik, Mr. T. Mitose, and Dr. Golub are interviewed and pictured several times. In every instance the term "Kenpo" is always used.

6. In the June 1981 "Black Belt" article on the "History of Kenpo" written by
Dr. Golub the spelling is "Kenpo".

7. In the letters and writings I have from Robert Trias concerning his friendship and training with James Mitose in the 40's, he always refers to Mitose's style as "Kenpo".

Hi John, I only recently did a google search for information and this old thread popped up.
I hope you can add some history connection between Okinawa Grand Masters and my Grand Master that i have studied under, 5days per week, for 10 yrs. He teaches "Jim-Tzu Kempo, Dragon Snake". I learned Diamond steps, stick fighting, and all the strikes as well as Prana-Bindu conditioning. I loved the power it generates. I practice it all as part of my cardio routines. One of the three of us that studied under Master Jimenez, went on to open his own Dragon Snake MMA dojo.
I entered amateur MMA to test it out in an aggressive situation against another skilled fighter. I loved it! I won. But so limited by the rules of Amateur or even pro MMA, all the endless striking techinques i had trained for could not be used. The techniques he taught me are so rarely seen in MMA. The closest applied technique style in MMA that i have seen was by Cung Le while he was fighting under Strike Force with a record of 9-3. After he switched to UFC his Martial Arts Skill faded and he began fighting like everyone else....and he started losing... In my opinion, he should have stuck with his true martial arts technique/style... it was awesome to see executed and it was working in the cage.
My sen-sey's name is Grand Master Louis Jimenez. 5th Degree Black Belt Master Instructor in "Chinese Kempo(A modern method of Combat Self-Defense). He explained that his father was in the military during Korean war and he grew up in Okinawa on one of the Islands, training under his grand master, along with other grand masters that would fight each other in sparring but full contact at high levels.
His direct lineage from Grand Master William Chow.
It would be interesting if you or people you know, know of my sen-sey and that part of history. Where he trained and if he is remembered.
Thank you, Marco 1st Degree Black Belt Chinese Kempo

 

[chiquest]

To further confuse matters, four of those letters (all dated 1947) referred to the book by the title "What Is Self Defense by Kempo Jiu-jitsu". In a 1953 letter by Dr. Arthur Keawe, printed in the second edition (1980 reissue), Dr. Keawe uses the KeNpo spelling. Since Dr. Keawe was a direct student of Mitose, it may be assumed that both he and Thomas Young knew how Mitose wished the name of the art to be spelled.
I've heard the publisher's error story before, but in "Mitose's In Search of Kenpo" (published in 1984), the word is spelled "Kenpo" throughout. Surely, if the "Kenpo" spelling was a publisher's error in 1953, it is unlikely that it would have been repeated in 1984 by a different publisher in a different book by the same author.
Sorry if this doesn't help. :asian:

The story in question is that in James Mitose's manuscript for his book, "What is True Self-Defense?", he called the style "Kosho Shorei-Ryū Kempo". The publisher inexplicably changed the spelling to "Kenpo". When numerous books were printed, Mitose saw the modification and asked the publisher to change the name back to "Kempo". When the publisher told him how expensive it would be to re-print all the books, Mitose decided to leave the modified spelling in the book. The rest, as they say, is history. That is why the names "Kempo" and "Kenpo" are really interchangeable and refer to the same discipline.

 

[chiquest]

Kenpo and Kempo are essentially the same. But there are a lot of variations in the type of Kenpo/Kempo.

Directly translated it means "Fist Law".

All the Kenpo/Kempo arts trace their lineage back to James Mitose. I beleive there are several threads here about him. Mitose trained a few students, one of the most important (from the perspective of passing on and improving the art) is William K.S. "Thunderbolt" Chow. Chow in turn trained a number of the most prominant names in the Kenpo/Kempo. I beleive, and please someone correct me if I speak out of turn, that Chow was the first one to change the spelling from Kempo to Kenpo.

Chow's Students included:
- Ed Parker, creater of what is refered to as American Kenpo. Also known as Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate. Grandmaster Parker has a long and distinguished list of student. Any search on the name Ed Parker will bring up a significant list of web sites. Some other names to look up, students who studied with Mr. Parker are: Frank Tejo, Huk Planas, Larry Tatum, Al Tracy.

- William Chun. As Professor Nick Cerio continued his studies, he trained with Chun for a while before being granted permission to train with Grandmaster Chow. Unfortunatly, my knowledge on Chun and his additions to the art are limited to his interaction with Professor Cerio. Others on this board my be able to provide more on him.

- Sam Kouha, Grandmaster of Kara-Ho Kenpo. According to his web site, Kara-Ho is the system developed by Grandmaster Chow. Again, I know little about Grandmaster Kouha. For more information on him, I recommend www.karaho.com (his web site)

- Adrian Emperado, Grandmaster Emperado got together with top pratitioners of other arts and created the Kajukenbo system (KArate - JU Jistu - KENpo - Chinese BOxing) [I believe that is the breakdown, others may correct me]

The lineage I study came from Kajukenbo.(Emperado - Gascon - Presare - Cerio - Villari - Bryant&Nohelty)

If you want to learn more about Kenpo/Kempo, I can recommend some other web sites.

www.duncansmartialarts.com has an excellent linage diagram. Keep in mind it is focused on the lineage of Master Duncan but it does show the names I gave above and it does have web links to many of them.

Hope this helps.

As you stated, Professor William K. S. Chow taught the Emperado brothers (Adriano and Joe). That lineage continued from Adriano Emperado (before he created Kajukenbo) through Marino Tiwanak (the first black belt from Adriano Emperado under "Kenpo Karate" in Hawaii), Florentino Pancipanci and John Redmon. The techniques of Emperado-Tiwanak-Pancipanci-Redmon Kenpo (

) are also still practiced by the C.H.A.3 Kenpo schools in Hawaii, which were established by Marino Tiwanak. His legacy and traditions are taught in numerous Kenpo schools that are operating in Hawaii, California, Montana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Illinois, Florida, Louisiana, Nevada, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Canada.

 

[FranciscoNegron]

Just a general question and I guess I can post it here. This is about the Universal Pattern used. but As the symbol is a cool concept that I appreciate, would it be wrong if I were to study Kajukenbo or a non-EPAK system and wear that patch? The symbol in itself, would it be fair to say, it’s universal for all Kenpo styles?

 

[Flying Crane]

Just a general question and I guess I can post it here. This is about the Universal Pattern used. but As the symbol is a cool concept that I appreciate, would it be wrong if I were to study Kajukenbo or a non-EPAK system and wear that patch? The symbol in itself, would it be fair to say, it’s universal for all Kenpo styles?

If you are training on your own, doing your own thing, you can do whatever you want. The “kenpo mafia” isn’t going to pay you a visit and break your knees for doing something they disagree with. If you find meaning in the symbology, then feel free to put on the patch.

If you are training in a kajukenbo school or some other school, check with your teachers first to make sure they are ok with it. That is just polite. You wear the uniform that the school mandates (if any).