Did a little training with Tony Dismukes

[marvin8]

Your use of “double weighted” doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not saying it’s wrong - just trying to understand the term as you use it.

I learned that term as referring to having weight equal across both feet (hence “double weighted), which theoretically requires a weight shift to move in any direction.

Double weighted means your opponent is unable to change. If my opponent is not double weighted, they can change with me or counter.

But you referred to a point before a foot is planted as being “double weighted”. What’s the “double” in that usage?

If I move or attack just before an opponent plants his lead foot, he cannot change with me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

"If the opponent does not move, then I do not move. At the opponent’s slightest move, I move first." — Wu Yu-hsiang

My statement still holds the same. Romanticized. At the very least out of context of what the quote is referring to.

 

[marvin8]

My statement still holds the same. Romanticized. At the very least out of context of what the quote is referring to.

I am not sure I understand. How is your statement in context with the Wu Yu-hsiang quote?

If anything, Classic CMA would say "See a brick, Use a Brick"

Or, how are these out of context?

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.”

"It is said if the opponent does not move, then I do not move. At the opponent's slightest move, I move first." — Wu Yu-hsiang

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am not sure I understand. How is your statement in context with the Wu Yu-hsiang quote?

Because if that's the case then all Tai Chi students would just stand still and there would be no fight, there would be no competition.

Take note of the offense attack (hip throw.@ 1:32). You can actually see him set up the throw long before he throws the guy. That is an offensive action, not a wait for my opponent to react concept.

The quote that you listed is the same training quote that I had when I was taking Tai Chi Classes. The context of that quote was based on training push hands and building sensitivity to movement. It was not a quote in which fighting should be based on.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Or, how are these out of context?

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.”

"It is said if the opponent does not move, then I do not move. At the opponent's slightest move, I move first." — Wu Yu-hsiang

Knocking on the front door doesn't require the opponent to do anything. They can stand in guard position and not move, but that doesn't mean that I can't knock simply because he didn't move.

 

[marvin8]

Or, how are these out of context?

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.”

"It is said if the opponent does not move, then I do not move. At the opponent's slightest move, I move first." — Wu Yu-hsiang

Knocking on the front door doesn't require the opponent to do anything. They can stand in guard position and not move, but that doesn't mean that I can't knock simply because he didn't move.

However, the CMA basic strategy 101 does require "the opponent [to] open the door."

If you "knock on the door" and the opponent doesn't open the door (answer) but you still try to enter (kick the door down), the opponent may hurt you.

If you only drill technique (e.g., kick, then grab arm) without "knock on the door," your opponent may punch you in the face or hurt you.

 

[marvin8]

"It is said if the opponent does not move, then I do not move. At the opponent's slightest move, I move first." — Wu Yu-hsiang

Because if that's the case then all Tai Chi students would just stand still and there would be no fight, there would be no competition.

Take note of the offense attack (hip throw.@ 1:32). You can actually see him set up the throw long before he throws the guy. That is an offensive action, not a wait for my opponent to react concept.

The quote that you listed is the same training quote that I had when I was taking Tai Chi Classes. The context of that quote was based on training push hands and building sensitivity to movement. It was not a quote in which fighting should be based on.

The principle may be vague without further instruction. Hence, my quote.

"If the opponent does not move, then I do not make a committed move (e.g., I start in an offset position). As the opponent double weights, I move with them." — marvin8

In self-defense, I will not be the initial aggressor.

In competition, I may start in an offset position and/or feint (ask or knock), then enter when the opponent is double weighted.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you "knock on the door" and the opponent doesn't open the door (answer) but you still try to enter (kick the door down), the opponent may hurt you.

If your opponent doesn't open the door, you help him to open that door. You guide his leading arm away from your entering path.

When you apply "引(Yin) - Arm guiding", if you control your opponent's wrist or elbow, that leading arm cannot punch you. If you guide that leading arm to jam the back arm, that back arm also cannot punch you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

However, the CMA basic strategy 101 does require "the opponent [to] open the door."

If you "knock on the door" and the opponent doesn't open the door (answer) but you still try to enter (kick the door down), the opponent may hurt you.

No it doesn't require it. But if my opponent is guaring 100% then that means he's not attacking. He will need to open the door to attack me. If I punch my opponent in the front of the face multiple times, he will close the door to the front of his face, which opens the door to the side of his head.

@1:43. Defending the eye poke closes the door for the eyes, but opens the door to the gut. Strike the gut. Basic concept .

Concept of hitting the gaps 1:06 -1:25

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This video is the opposite of "if you don't move, I won't move". This video shows I force you to move, whether you want to open your door or not, I'll help you to open that door.

 

[marvin8]

No it doesn't require it.

Yes it does. Again:

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.

 

[marvin8]

If your opponent doesn't open the door, you help him to open that door. You guide his leading arm away from your entering path.

When you apply "引(Yin) - Arm guiding", if you control your opponent's wrist or elbow, that leading arm cannot punch you. If you guide that leading arm to jam the back arm, that back arm also cannot punch you.

I already addressed that. Again,

Your opponent is dead, not moving. You never knocked. Your opponent did not open the door, you just enter.

This does not follow your CMA basic strategy 101.

If you "knock on the door" and the opponent doesn't open the door (answer) but you still try to enter (kick the door down), the opponent may hurt you.

If you only drill technique (e.g., kick, then grab arm) without "knock on the door," your opponent may punch you in the face or hurt you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When you apply "引(Yin) - Arm guiding", if you control your opponent's wrist or elbow, that leading arm cannot punch you. If you guide that leading arm to jam the back arm, that back arm also cannot punch you.

Not only does that arm lose the ability to punch you, It also loses the ability to defend (creating an open). If you pin my leading arm correctly, then that arm cannot punch or defend until it escapes the pin.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.

The CMA strategy 102 said "If your opponent doesn't open that door, you help him to open it."

Is this required? No! It's just one of many strategies.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes it does. Again:

where does Wang's statement say that it's required?

 

[marvin8]

where does Wang's statement say that it's required?

I already addressed that. Again,

"To knock on the door, when your opponent opens the door, you enter" is CMA basic strategy 101.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Double weighted means your opponent is unable to change. If my opponent is not double weighted, they can change with me or counter.

Ah. Okay, so you’re using it in a broader sense, based on the effect of being “double weighted” as I know the term. Thanks!

 

[JowGaWolf]

I already addressed that. Again,

Required means you have no choice but to enter. If your opponent opens the door you can choose to enter or you can choose not to. Jow Ga Kung Fu presents a lot of "Open Doors" but if you try to enter, you may fail. This i the basic concept of creating fake openings. You "open the door" so that you can trick your opponent to enter. So, it makes no sense to always enter an open door. CMA systems have hundreds of techniques. CMA systems are full of options.

In all of my Martial Arts training. I have never heard that a Technique was required. That system requires students to always enter the door. Especially when many systems present fake openings. The last time I fell for a fake opening I ended up in a headlock.

 

[Dirty Dog]

However, the CMA basic strategy 101 does require "the opponent [to] open the door."

That's unfortunate. Happily, some of us learned how to open the door for them.

If you "knock on the door" and the opponent doesn't open the door (answer) but you still try to enter (kick the door down), the opponent may hurt you.

Or you may hurt them. That's kind of how fighting works. Personally, I'd use one of the many ways to open the door for them. Or I'd kick them in their window.

 

[marvin8]

Ah. Okay, so you’re using it in a broader sense, based on the effect of being “double weighted” as I know the term. Thanks!

Yes. I agree with KFW.

IMO, double weight has nothing to do with solo but has to do with your opponent. If your opponent push your right shoulder, you can yield by pulling your right shoulder back and spin. If your opponent push your right shoulder and hook your left leg at the same time, you can't yield because you are in "double weight". To me, "double weight" is your opponent puts you in a situation that you loss the ability to change.