DF: knife defense

[Clark Kent]

knife defense
By rezbot2000 - Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:37:23 GMT
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

Hey, I was wondering how likely you all think it is to defend against an assailant with a knife? I mean, I know you guys practice it all the time but I've heard that no amount of practice really prepares you--it's best to not fight back. Also, if you had to fight back do you think you would come out on top?


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[harold]

Knife defense.An interesting subject.My Kenpo instructor states"Avoid if you can, fight if you must and be prepared to get cut." as a law enforcement instructor with 28 years on the job I can say that any type of edged weapon is very dangerous and readily available. The edged weapon is the most popular weapon inside detention facilities. I subscribe to my instructor's advice and add that the object is to move at an angle,attempt to control the attacking limb, not the weapn itself, minimize exposing YOUR critical targets (inside of arms, throat,etc) Practice knife defenses often so that it becomes reflex. Hope this helps.

 

[kailat]

knife defense
By rezbot2000 - Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:37:23 GMT
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

Hey, I was wondering how likely you all think it is to defend against an assailant with a knife? I mean, I know you guys practice it all the time but I've heard that no amount of practice really prepares you--it's best to not fight back. Also, if you had to fight back do you think you would come out on top?
_______________________________________________________________

I will spend a moment here.

When the topic of discussion is knife or edged weapon defense or simply knife fighting alot has to be considered.

We have to overall look at the situation and look at the assailant, his intentions, as well as mental stability and skill level. In most instances someone with a knife may not be skilled perse' however, but one does not really need to be either to do serious bodily harm or damage to another with an edged weapon. Anaylizing a knife; they are two fold: A) CUT/SLASH or B) STAB/PUNCTURE tool.

Makeshift weapons ie. shanks,razorblades/box cutters or cutting implements another source to consider.

From a training stand point; Train drills, understand the drill, work it slow and pick up the pace. To eventually be w/ your training partner to put on head gear and a training blade and go all out no punches pulled. You will get banged up in most instances but thats ok! It's nothing compared to a real knife fight. Train to hitting to the head,face,EYES, GROIN>>>> these are the most volitile tools to attack when in that situation. Make your attacks precise, clean, fast and to the point with little to no room for error! U usually only get one shot at it when confronted w/ a knife! EXPECT TO GET CUT IN TRAINING! Train on focusing on the situation not the cut. (Its a mental blockage thing)! Focus on an exit plan.. ROLE PLAY! VERBAL JUDO USUALLY IS BETTER THAN ACTUAL JUDO in many cases and could just save your hide.

THE REALITY TO A KNIFE FIGHT!
Expect to get cut, and expect to go into shock as soon as you realize it! U must have control over your emotions.

2fold here depending on which end of the spectrum your on. A) the end of a knife, or B) the one with a knife! Both are traumatizing and both are places no one wants to be if can be avoided.

I've personally been on both ends and from my own personal experience alot goes through your mind in a matter of seconds. From the stand point of holding the knife, you have to live w/ the decision and the consequences of your actions at that very moment. In many cases the guy w/ the knife is just as scared and intimidated as you are. In many cases he dont' want to use it. I was faced by multiple gang members once when I was younger in a parking lot I pulled a balisong for my protection and in that instant I was thinking this could be fatal on my end as well as his! Am I willing to deal with that? the answer was obvious as I put the knfe away and we just fought! Nonetheless, his using his shirt to cover his arm showed me right then that heknew what he was doing and been in that situation before so my mind had changed real fast! I got the ever loving crap beat out of me by 3 guys but u know what ? Im here today and not in prison for killing him or worse dead from him using my knife against me.
ANything could of happend as simple as me accidently disarming myself, dropping the blade him or his buddies picking it up and stabbing me with it.

So the assbeating was the least I could of dealt with.

From the side of having to defend against a blade I was in a situation once at a party where the normal drunkards got carried away and the next thing I knew I was being confronted by an idiot w/ a knife and I learnt from the situation w/ throwing a shrt around my arm and I was able to defend myself and disarm the assailant before the masses stopped the fight! I was cut on the opposite arm (still have the scar) and didn't realize i was cut till the fight was over, but it was a deep superficial laceration that needed 32 stitches. Again that could of been a bad situation..

About 7yrs later I picked back up the Martial Arts and my life took a diff path and got a job in corrections. At this time my mentality was different my life was different but throughout the 5yrs I worked in that field I was confronted by an edged weapon attack at least 3times. All ended witout serious incident but I THANK my training and prior mental attitude of being in the situations I was in. I was able to stay calm and keep a cool head and in all instances the offenders where I worked had nothing to lose and for those thats ever worked in that environment NO what im talking about.

I can recall being confronted by an attacker w/ a makeshift shank made out of a plastic lawn chair when he ran up on me, my first instinct was a straight punch to the nose.. that pretty much ended the entire incident.

So as I conclude this I want those to know Im by no means an expert on knife or edged weapon fighting. I take it a bit more to heart because i've had the "UNFORTUNATE" instances in those shoes. Its better to hear from those who have than those who teach edged weapons defense and has no clue the amount of thought process that goes into such a situation.

I'll admit for me my circle of friends I ran with were probably not the wisest choice but nonetheless I been there and done that...

One last thing to consider or think about is the final type of knife attack! Thats the AMBUSH or SURPRISE ATTACK. And in my humble opinion thats a tough one.. So many innocent people usualy women fall victim too. How do u prepare for something that you don't see or no its comming? walk to your car, your home and BOOM!! your attacked and stabbed multiple times all over and next thing you know your dying right there. A strong will, and a good faith in GOD is all one can hope for in that case. I hope for the sake of humanity noone ever finds themselvs in that situation.. AWARENESS, AWARENESS, AWARENESS... Just listening to the news a crazy woman stabbed two pilots on a plane.. Both survived but thats one of the ambush movements that im talking about. usually performed by the deranged, or a jealous stalker, or spouse or EX.

I hope this helps you and it has covered alot. I could go on and on on this subject but I need to stop my rant...

 

[kailat]

Knife defense.An interesting subject.My Kenpo instructor states"Avoid if you can, fight if you must and be prepared to get cut." as a law enforcement instructor with 28 years on the job I can say that any type of edged weapon is very dangerous and readily available. The edged weapon is the most popular weapon inside detention facilities. I subscribe to my instructor's advice and add that the object is to move at an angle,attempt to control the attacking limb, not the weapn itself, minimize exposing YOUR critical targets (inside of arms, throat,etc) Practice knife defenses often so that it becomes reflex. Hope this helps.

HAROLD:

Your absolutly correct in stating do all you can to avoid any said situaton. My main philosophy in this day and age for me as I cover edged weapon training is WHY ARE U IN THIS SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE? Perhaps you frequent places that are considered rough location, or hang around a ruthless group of thugs, or crowd (kinda how I was in my earlier years). But as an adult we should be more apt to make wiser decisons.

In your sentence you stated "control the attacking limb" Sometimes controling that limb will and can get you cut. What i like to share is what we in KALI teach is "TRACKING" that limb, keeping close contact w/ it without trying to grab the arm or limb. Im not saying its not valid but in instances from training this method more times than none ive found myself pumbled on numerous accounts by a stronger person. A smaller lady, or less than strong male against someone w/ more strength I would not put forth the emphasis on control of that limb. In kali most instances the guy has more than one blade so if your putting all your energy or focus on that one hand then he's stabbing you with the other! (this may not be reality) but what it teaches is how to control the weapon hand while being aware of the rest of the body.

Being a police officer now I teach a "surviving edged weapons class" as part of our DT's course. In our instance we have our firearm or tact baton, chem spray etc.. to back us up. And in most cases there is no excuse for us to be assaulted by an edged weapon..

However to the unarmed or civilian in this situation as you again stated AWARENESS is my main focus on all instances.. Find an escape route, if you can.. NIKE JITSU is my favorite tool or VERBAL JUDO if you can fall on both of these DO IT! Don't be a hero because we don't need another hero who died or got killed in battle... EDGED WEAPON is a serious tool in the skilled and unskilled hands. Anyone with malicious intent to use anything that can cut or stab in my eyes is a serious, serious situation and knowing that alone and knowing how to confront that is survival all in itself.

Good post sir. As u can tell the edged weapon debate is one of my favorite..

 

[kailat]

Dang I know im tearing up this thread LOL but im at my part time job today bored and nothing else to do but play on the computer...LOL At any rate after scouring through the FMAdigest a good friend of mine made a post that I'd like to share on behalf of this topic of discussion. Not sure if you know Guru Mike Casto or not, but if you know him you'll understand his personality. To know Guru Mike is to Love Guru Mike.. But i'd thought id post what he was talking about in terms to knife fighting. Mind you I've done much training with guru Mike over the years and I found him to be one of the highest quality of instructors I've had the opportunity to train with and befriend. For those that are interested in learning alittle more of Guru Mike go here: www.impactacademy.com or www.asianfightingarts.com

GURU MIKE ON KNIFE FIGHTING: per FMADIGEST.COM

"I actually had a situation where walking up and saying "hello" worked
out for me ... well, I said more than "hello." What I actually said was
something along the lines of, "Hey man! Long time no see! Dude, it's
been what? 3 years? We met at that party ... what a night! We'll have to
get together again sometime. Give me a call."

His attitude immediately went from one of a predator sizing up potential
prey to one of "What the heck? This guy knows me? Did we ..." It
completely spun him away from his predatory mindset and forced him to
shift gears. It was a calculated risk and not something I would advocate
... but in that space/time it worked for me.

I have a friend up in Chicago who was accosted by a knife wielding
assailant screaming things like, "Give me your money, man! I'll cut
you!" Joe, my friend, took a moment then said, very enthusiastically,
"Man! That is a nice knife! That's one of the nicest knives I've ever
seen. Can I look at it." He extended his hand ... and the guy gave him
the knife. In case this story sounds familiar, Joe discussed it in an
article he wrote for Inside Kung Fu last year.

Anyway ... I wouldn't recommend these types of things as "first line
defenses" but it's good to keep them in mind as plausible alternatives
if the situation reads for it.

Guru Mike"

 

[harold]

HAROLD:

Your absolutly correct in stating do all you can to avoid any said situaton. My main philosophy in this day and age for me as I cover edged weapon training is WHY ARE U IN THIS SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE? Perhaps you frequent places that are considered rough location, or hang around a ruthless group of thugs, or crowd (kinda how I was in my earlier years). But as an adult we should be more apt to make wiser decisons.

In your sentence you stated "control the attacking limb" Sometimes controling that limb will and can get you cut. What i like to share is what we in KALI teach is "TRACKING" that limb, keeping close contact w/ it without trying to grab the arm or limb. Im not saying its not valid but in instances from training this method more times than none ive found myself pumbled on numerous accounts by a stronger person. A smaller lady, or less than strong male against someone w/ more strength I would not put forth the emphasis on control of that limb. In kali most instances the guy has more than one blade so if your putting all your energy or focus on that one hand then he's stabbing you with the other! (this may not be reality) but what it teaches is how to control the weapon hand while being aware of the rest of the body.

Being a police officer now I teach a "surviving edged weapons class" as part of our DT's course. In our instance we have our firearm or tact baton, chem spray etc.. to back us up. And in most cases there is no excuse for us to be assaulted by an edged weapon..

However to the unarmed or civilian in this situation as you again stated AWARENESS is my main focus on all instances.. Find an escape route, if you can.. NIKE JITSU is my favorite tool or VERBAL JUDO if you can fall on both of these DO IT! Don't be a hero because we don't need another hero who died or got killed in battle... EDGED WEAPON is a serious tool in the skilled and unskilled hands. Anyone with malicious intent to use anything that can cut or stab in my eyes is a serious, serious situation and knowing that alone and knowing how to confront that is survival all in itself.

Good post sir. As u can tell the edged weapon debate is one of my favorite..

Edged weapon training is also one of my favorites too. I have had a small amount of Kali training and when you say tracking the limb, that describes it so well. In Kenpo we practice a concept of saturate and destroy so when, if possible, you are able to control or track the limb, we then saturate that limb with strikes as well as kicks, knees etc to the lower structure of the body. This is in tune with a Chinese Kempo and JKD concept known as B.E.A.M. which stands for B- Breath E- Eyes A- Attention and M- Mobility. By attacking either breath, eyes or mobility, you automatically short circuit the attention.