Hi,
I have moved it to a new topic, because I think its a good one and otherwise it may bee "hidden" in the other thread.
Regards
Dieter
OK, good point.
Let me jump in here.
I have trained with lots of the masters including Ernesto and Roberto Presas in the Philippines in the 80s, I had been training with GM Remy since 1994 and later with his American students, mainly Dan Anderson and Bram Frank and a little with Tim Hartman and some others..
Since 2003 I have been training with almost all of the Filipino Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines and had them over in my house in Germany and teaching seminars, namely Roland Dantes, Bambit Dulay, Cristino Vasquez, Rodel Dagooc, Rene Tongson and Jerry Dela Cruz.
I had a short training with Vic Sanchez in the Philippines too. I do not want to show of I only want to make clear,that I think I know
what I am talking about.
Things are not very easy to judge.
Clearly said, of course the Modern Arnis of GM Remy mid of the 70s was not as complex and intricate as it was at the end hf his life. Many things changed as he changed. Some things stayed the same and some became different techniques to the same names. Because he changed and always learned new things, that he incorporated into his Modern Arnis.
To some people he showed different things than to others. Like Bram was interested in blades, so Remy showed him and Kelly more blade applications where Dan for example was more interested in the stick, at least his first 20 Modern Arnis years.
To my knowledge Rocky Paswick got a very different training from GM Remy in the 70s as for example Jeff Delaney who started MA in 94. (Just a name, put any persons name who started in the mid 90s here. No "Delaney bashing" intended) GM teaching methods were different and Rocky learned one to one and Jeff more in seminars and camps.
What I mean here is, that already in the US, different persons got different training and different Modern Arnis for different reasons. Be it due to the different time, they were learning, the different situation, that GM Remy was available for them or be it different personal interest.
And then, in the last years another fact was added: GM Remy was not there any more. So from being a Modern Arnis student/practitioner/master under GM Remy while he was still alive, an own identity had/has/will develop, as Dan had recently described it in another thread.
This is a normal procedure, that when your teacher is not there any more, your focus becomes a different one. Tim oriented himself to Balintawak, Master Buot, Dan refined his MA80, Bram concentrated on his CSSD/SC and knife design and combat application and so on. Some concentrate to preserve what they have been taught, others move on and create different and new techniques/styles/concepts and drills.
I for example, try to learn from different persons from all phases of the Professor, to have a well rounded overlook over all of his Modern Arnis and not only over a certain period, and I also look for new developments, because Modern for me is not static, but being continuously researching and discovering.
All is good and ok.
I only wanted do describe, that
A:
during GM Remys active time, there were already people, who got different things than others. So their Modern Arnis was not necessarily the same as the Modern Arnis of others.
And
B:
than after his death, the development of people and styles moved into different directions.
And this is 6 yeas after GM Remys leaving.
Now if you add another 20 years, where will all those people be ans would they still be very similar in their approaches to Modern Arnis?
This is exactly the situation, when you look at Modern Arnis in the Philippines.
People had trained with GM Remy for years and in 1975 he left them.
Now the same process happened. Some continued to train with themselves (Jerry Dela Cruz and Rodel Dagooc), some trained with other Modern Arnis masters like Cristino Vasquez and GM Rene Tongson who continued to train with Ernesto and Roberto Presas ands some trained with other masters like Vic Sanchez. All ok, nothing wrong.
And of course, they also went through phases, that things they had learned from GM Remy became their own and that they started to develop their own way of Modern Arnis on the base what they had learned and when they moved on. Like Christino Vasquez founded his Ipit Pilipit, Jerry Dela Cruz his Arnis Cruzada and also Rodel Dagooc it teaching his version of Modern Arnis, even though he did not choose another name for it.
Then GM Remy returned end of the 90s to the Philippines and especially Bambit Dulay trained a lot with him and learned also the "new" Modern Arnis and Tapi-Tapi directly from GM Remy.
So, to come to an end: Of course, you do not find a lot of the Modern Anris of the 90s Remy Presas style in the Philippines, because there are not many masters, who can teach that specific version. It is there and being taught, but not as widespread as in the US.
But you find a lot of Modern Arnis, that has older roots and that whose masters made it their own and formed new things out of that, just as GM Remy has done it. And exactly the same will also happen in the US and in Europe, because this is what we like with Modern Arnis: it is modern and it is flexible. It never stays the same. Only, that now, not only one person is the the center and the "engine" of Modern Arnis, but that this is done by many people. This way, Modern Arnis will never die but also, it will constantly evolve and change over the years.
Regards from Germany
Dieter Knüttel
Datu and Senior Master of Modern Arnis
__________________
I have moved it to a new topic, because I think its a good one and otherwise it may bee "hidden" in the other thread.
Regards
Dieter
Originally Posted by Rich Parsons
But a good discourse of what happened in the PI/RP versus NA/EC would be good for a new thread.
OK, good point.
Let me jump in here.
I have trained with lots of the masters including Ernesto and Roberto Presas in the Philippines in the 80s, I had been training with GM Remy since 1994 and later with his American students, mainly Dan Anderson and Bram Frank and a little with Tim Hartman and some others..
Since 2003 I have been training with almost all of the Filipino Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines and had them over in my house in Germany and teaching seminars, namely Roland Dantes, Bambit Dulay, Cristino Vasquez, Rodel Dagooc, Rene Tongson and Jerry Dela Cruz.
I had a short training with Vic Sanchez in the Philippines too. I do not want to show of I only want to make clear,that I think I know
what I am talking about.Things are not very easy to judge.
Clearly said, of course the Modern Arnis of GM Remy mid of the 70s was not as complex and intricate as it was at the end hf his life. Many things changed as he changed. Some things stayed the same and some became different techniques to the same names. Because he changed and always learned new things, that he incorporated into his Modern Arnis.
To some people he showed different things than to others. Like Bram was interested in blades, so Remy showed him and Kelly more blade applications where Dan for example was more interested in the stick, at least his first 20 Modern Arnis years
.To my knowledge Rocky Paswick got a very different training from GM Remy in the 70s as for example Jeff Delaney who started MA in 94. (Just a name, put any persons name who started in the mid 90s here. No "Delaney bashing" intended) GM teaching methods were different and Rocky learned one to one and Jeff more in seminars and camps.
What I mean here is, that already in the US, different persons got different training and different Modern Arnis for different reasons. Be it due to the different time, they were learning, the different situation, that GM Remy was available for them or be it different personal interest.
And then, in the last years another fact was added: GM Remy was not there any more. So from being a Modern Arnis student/practitioner/master under GM Remy while he was still alive, an own identity had/has/will develop, as Dan had recently described it in another thread.
This is a normal procedure, that when your teacher is not there any more, your focus becomes a different one. Tim oriented himself to Balintawak, Master Buot, Dan refined his MA80, Bram concentrated on his CSSD/SC and knife design and combat application and so on. Some concentrate to preserve what they have been taught, others move on and create different and new techniques/styles/concepts and drills.
I for example, try to learn from different persons from all phases of the Professor, to have a well rounded overlook over all of his Modern Arnis and not only over a certain period, and I also look for new developments, because Modern for me is not static, but being continuously researching and discovering.
All is good and ok.
I only wanted do describe, that
A:
during GM Remys active time, there were already people, who got different things than others. So their Modern Arnis was not necessarily the same as the Modern Arnis of others.
And
B:
than after his death, the development of people and styles moved into different directions.
And this is 6 yeas after GM Remys leaving.
Now if you add another 20 years, where will all those people be ans would they still be very similar in their approaches to Modern Arnis?
This is exactly the situation, when you look at Modern Arnis in the Philippines.
People had trained with GM Remy for years and in 1975 he left them.
Now the same process happened. Some continued to train with themselves (Jerry Dela Cruz and Rodel Dagooc), some trained with other Modern Arnis masters like Cristino Vasquez and GM Rene Tongson who continued to train with Ernesto and Roberto Presas ands some trained with other masters like Vic Sanchez. All ok, nothing wrong.
And of course, they also went through phases, that things they had learned from GM Remy became their own and that they started to develop their own way of Modern Arnis on the base what they had learned and when they moved on. Like Christino Vasquez founded his Ipit Pilipit, Jerry Dela Cruz his Arnis Cruzada and also Rodel Dagooc it teaching his version of Modern Arnis, even though he did not choose another name for it.
Then GM Remy returned end of the 90s to the Philippines and especially Bambit Dulay trained a lot with him and learned also the "new" Modern Arnis and Tapi-Tapi directly from GM Remy.
So, to come to an end: Of course, you do not find a lot of the Modern Anris of the 90s Remy Presas style in the Philippines, because there are not many masters, who can teach that specific version. It is there and being taught, but not as widespread as in the US.
But you find a lot of Modern Arnis, that has older roots and that whose masters made it their own and formed new things out of that, just as GM Remy has done it. And exactly the same will also happen in the US and in Europe, because this is what we like with Modern Arnis: it is modern and it is flexible. It never stays the same. Only, that now, not only one person is the the center and the "engine" of Modern Arnis, but that this is done by many people. This way, Modern Arnis will never die but also, it will constantly evolve and change over the years.
Regards from Germany
Dieter Knüttel
Datu and Senior Master of Modern Arnis
__________________
