charyuop
Black Belt
XS, I didn't mean to criticize and sorry if it sounded like it was, mine was a pure question. Everyone mentioned the free hand and I was wondering the chances of getting kicked in the face with your technique....pure curiosity.
Defense Against The Hairgrab
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
The point of lowering yourself in this technique is actually to unbalance your assailant. As you drop your weight move back away from the attacker which has two effects. Firstly it enacts a minor wrist lock using their head as a pivot (a little pain to distract them) and pulls them forward and off balance now that they are distracted. They are now in an excellent position for a follow up technique.
This is pure qinna and thus never works in isolation.
Infinite
Brown Belt
Ok two techniques I was taught,
The inside roll,
Pin hand to head via wrist grab. Then rotate so the attackers arm moves to the outside.
Attacker comes from front right hand grabs hair. Pin hand with right hand take half a step back as you rotate to the right. He is off balance and you now proceed to send a dizzying array of elbows and strikes to his now exposed centerline.
Roll to ground,
The same principal as before but that half of step back turns into a full step with more twisting so that what you end up with is him going down under you. The idea here as it was presented in a seminar (never trained this move) was that you could then move to a joint lock.
Both techniques are supposed to be pretty violent on that half or full step. The instructor said to envision pulling them so hard they end up on their primary foot with there secondary foot looking for a new purchase.
The inside roll,
Pin hand to head via wrist grab. Then rotate so the attackers arm moves to the outside.
Attacker comes from front right hand grabs hair. Pin hand with right hand take half a step back as you rotate to the right. He is off balance and you now proceed to send a dizzying array of elbows and strikes to his now exposed centerline.
Roll to ground,
The same principal as before but that half of step back turns into a full step with more twisting so that what you end up with is him going down under you. The idea here as it was presented in a seminar (never trained this move) was that you could then move to a joint lock.
Both techniques are supposed to be pretty violent on that half or full step. The instructor said to envision pulling them so hard they end up on their primary foot with there secondary foot looking for a new purchase.
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
Forget the techniques. No matter what individual techniques we post we'll all just find holes in them because they're isolated. So lets figure out instead, whats the nature of the attack and what principles should be used to deal with it?
Im working on two hour sleep so I'll toss my own contribution after I get some rest.
Im working on two hour sleep so I'll toss my own contribution after I get some rest.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #25
I agree. This is an online discussion forum folks. Therefore, we are only able to read, so misunderstandings are going to happen when discussing techs. because we don't have a visual. That may give us the impression that there is a hole.
In any case, talking about the nature of the attack, as you suggested sounds like a good plan!
We can also discuss the grab applied from the side as well as behind.Get some rest and I look forward to reading more!
Mike
Shotgun Buddha
Brown Belt
I agree. This is an online discussion forum folks. Therefore, we are only able to read, so misunderstandings are going to happen when discussing techs. because we don't have a visual. That may give us the impression that there is a hole.
In any case, talking about the nature of the attack, as you suggested sounds like a good plan!
Get some rest and I look forward to reading more!
Mike
Ok, time for the dirtiest word in martial arts, context.
First off who will likely be attacked this way
- Most likely female
Who is likely to attack this way
- A larger and very aggressive male
Nature of the attack
- Serious assault, possible rape as the objective. Any attack where they grab the hair is likely to a violent one. Assume the grab will be followed either by a blow, or a sharp jerking upwards of the head.
-Someone willing to attack a woman like this will most likely be highly vicious.
So bearing in mind, we're not talking about what would you do if someone grabbed your hair.
We're figuring out what would a smaller, and no offence intended, weaker, woman do against a larger, stronger, highly vicious opponent intent on doing serious harm, when he grabs her by the hair.
So people, suggestions?
Is the "draw knife and poke into large nasty person multiple times until it stops moving" a viable suggestion?
Lamont
I just taught a self "awareness" class. Notice I didn't call it a self-defense class. It was to a group of 4H teens at the local school. I covered awareness items and focused on how to avoid situations and vulnerable areas where they live. In the two hours I had it was not a time to teach a number of techniques they would never remember. On the defense side however, I did have them perform and practice some practical hold releases from wrist grabs to chokes. The intent was to show them how to get out of the grasp and then create the distance necessary to escape the situation, not to stand there and do battle.
That being said, back to the initial question about a hair grab. There are a lot of holes to be shot in this technique but it is one that our system teaches.
Cover the opponent's grab with your same hand to relieve pressure. This cover hold also keeps your arm in a position to block any incoming strike from their free hand. Step back to extend the grabbing arm and puts you in a defense stance with your side toward them. With your free hand use a single knuckle strike to the nerve under their extended arm (not good if your arm is alot shorter than theirs) to get them to relax their grip. Move the grabbing hand off your hair as it relaxes and follow up with whatever strikes or kicks are available to the nearest targets.
I like what was mentioned about bending over to present a wrist lock. I think I will play with that one a bit.
That being said, back to the initial question about a hair grab. There are a lot of holes to be shot in this technique but it is one that our system teaches.
Cover the opponent's grab with your same hand to relieve pressure. This cover hold also keeps your arm in a position to block any incoming strike from their free hand. Step back to extend the grabbing arm and puts you in a defense stance with your side toward them. With your free hand use a single knuckle strike to the nerve under their extended arm (not good if your arm is alot shorter than theirs) to get them to relax their grip. Move the grabbing hand off your hair as it relaxes and follow up with whatever strikes or kicks are available to the nearest targets.
I like what was mentioned about bending over to present a wrist lock. I think I will play with that one a bit.
I'm guessing that would depend on your definition of viable in this particular situation, but it would be effective
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
there are just too many variables to try to explain everything that I (think I) know to do.
But philosophically, my reponses tend towards trapping the hand and engaging the opponent in close - stepping into the "pulling" of the hair. from there I like the idea of inflicting a substantial amount of pain on the bad guy.
one example:
guy grabs my hair from the front (slightly off to the side actually) with his right hand. I trapped his right with my right because it offered my head protection from both the pull and the incoming left fist. As he pulled his arm in towards him I stepped in with it throwing a left "bull" hook which nailed him in the temple. He let go of my hair, but I didn't let go of his hand. after that it was a simple restraint (with a not so nice slam into the wall) and wrist lock to get him out of the club.
(BTW - I should say that when I was young and invincible I was a bouncer with hair down to the middle of my back - I've been in this situation more than once.
But philosophically, my reponses tend towards trapping the hand and engaging the opponent in close - stepping into the "pulling" of the hair. from there I like the idea of inflicting a substantial amount of pain on the bad guy.
one example:
guy grabs my hair from the front (slightly off to the side actually) with his right hand. I trapped his right with my right because it offered my head protection from both the pull and the incoming left fist. As he pulled his arm in towards him I stepped in with it throwing a left "bull" hook which nailed him in the temple. He let go of my hair, but I didn't let go of his hand. after that it was a simple restraint (with a not so nice slam into the wall) and wrist lock to get him out of the club.
(BTW - I should say that when I was young and invincible I was a bouncer with hair down to the middle of my back - I've been in this situation more than once.
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
The Nurse Jekkyl in me says: only if you perceive a fatal thread and you feel you have no other alternative.
The Ms. Hyde in me says: Oh, I like you. :EG:
Has anybody said shave there head competely
I know lots of discussion so far.
If the person has made the mistakes to be in a situation where they were not aware to keep distance and or were totally surprised and or were the target then we can ignore all the awareness techniques and keeping distance.
The person has been grabbed. Usually when such a grab occurs there is a jerk. this jerk gets the person of balance and this allows the attacker to then get an adavantage or better advantage in either striking or subdueing depending upon the goal of the attacker.
There are multiple types of grabs to the hair/head. There is the grabbing the pony tail or long hair that is available.
There is the hand full of hair where the fingers are weaved into the hair. I personally like this one being the attacker as it gives lots of control and just pulling out is much harder. You have bascially weaved your fingers into their hair.
There is the grabbing of the top of the skull.
There is the grabbing of the side of the skull. I like this one as well the fingers can weave behing the skull and into the hair as well.
(* Yes I have said I like on a couple of these techniques. Not becuase I like to control women or abuse them, I use these techniques when desired against the opponent be they male or female. *)
So now to address these grabs. As many have stated here there are lots of variations depending upon situations and available techniques.
Personally I like the the awareness teachniques.
I think the peson should get a good base and then neutralize the grab with some form of pin and the with their legs and hands attack and cause pain. With the pain, this allows one to then try to free themselves from the grab and being entangled. I would also say draw attention by yelling. Most people ignore yells for Help as they do not want to get involved with a domestic. Use "Stranger" or "FIRE". These are words that some people will respond to either by calling 911 or by coming to see what is happening. Also yell things like: "I do not want to go with you" or "I do not want to fight. Stop hurting me!" When the witnesses are questioned later they will hopefully repeat what you have said. So, if you have accidentally hurt the attacker with a finger gouge to some place soft you will have this in place for additional defense.
still learning
Senior Master
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Hello, More holes here too? Ok if they grab the top of the head (hair)...put both your hands on his and bend forward for a wrist lock(must be done fast)..expect knees and punches to follow...be ready for a fight!
for those with very long hair...if can twist yourself into a spin and lock his fingers in your hair (seen this in wwf), not sure if this is wise to do..?
Keep in mind he has one hand on you...you will have two hands and two feet to strike back with...such as shin kicks (need shoes)...throat strikes..eye pokes...and so on...be created (skills you learn in class).
No two hair grabs will be the same..so each defense may vary..just like punches to the face...many variables..
Hair grabs ...good idea to teach students some possible defenses! Thanks for sharing everyone! ........Aloha
PS: What if they grab the hair on the chest? ..or the back... UM?
for those with very long hair...if can twist yourself into a spin and lock his fingers in your hair (seen this in wwf), not sure if this is wise to do..?
Keep in mind he has one hand on you...you will have two hands and two feet to strike back with...such as shin kicks (need shoes)...throat strikes..eye pokes...and so on...be created (skills you learn in class).
No two hair grabs will be the same..so each defense may vary..just like punches to the face...many variables..
Hair grabs ...good idea to teach students some possible defenses! Thanks for sharing everyone! ........Aloha
PS: What if they grab the hair on the chest? ..or the back... UM?
First time I got to read through this thread. Interesting.
I recall somewhere, some time ago, a person posted her black belt thesis (I believe this was on KenpoNet forum, but not sure) about a custom kata she made all based on hairgrab escapes. She had long hair and it kept constantly being grabbed during training by her partners. She decided to turn this problem to an advantage while thinking about a possible thesis topic, then followed through and developed this kata. I thought her thesis very fascinating. I'll have to see if I can dig it up and ask her for permission to share some ideas from it with this thread. Of course, it is from a Kenpo point of view, but no less applicable to other styles.
- Ceicei
I recall somewhere, some time ago, a person posted her black belt thesis (I believe this was on KenpoNet forum, but not sure) about a custom kata she made all based on hairgrab escapes. She had long hair and it kept constantly being grabbed during training by her partners. She decided to turn this problem to an advantage while thinking about a possible thesis topic, then followed through and developed this kata. I thought her thesis very fascinating. I'll have to see if I can dig it up and ask her for permission to share some ideas from it with this thread. Of course, it is from a Kenpo point of view, but no less applicable to other styles.
- Ceicei
