Defense against joint locks

[BlackCatBonz]

We share quite a bit with Hapkido in this area. I actually train alot with a Hapkido instructor in this area. Basically I agree with those saying you must "go with the energy" or "flow". This is important because if you break down every joint lock and look at the science of it, the "victum" must tense or resist at some point (maybe very minute but its there) in order for the lock to work. If you can train to completely relax your body, and truly feel where the energy is going, you can roll with it and even get a beat ahead of them and turn it on them.

I dont agree that there are locks that are 100% incapable of being escaped. In our school we do a training drill where we set up a joint lock (chin na) and start into it, then the opponent feels where its going, relaxes, yields out of it and into one of their own, this continues back and forth. Its great training to learn to relax even in the face of a lock and go with it.

One of the best tools for stoping a lock is to take their balance, which can be hard in some locks but works almost 100% when done.

7sm

these are all great points.
its one thing to say that when one group uses a lock, the way they do it is completely inescapable. it might be inescapable to someone that doesnt understand the subtleties of locks and locking.

 

[7starmantis]

Thats very true. Enescabable is subjective, but none are inescabable to everyone.

7sm

 

[Andrew Green]

it might be inescapable to someone that doesnt understand the subtleties of locks and locking.

There is a point of no escape, where if you don't tap your arm gets broken. So in a sense it depends on what the person is trying to do with the lock.

Like a punch, any punch can be avoided or blocked, but there is that point where if you haven't stopped it yet, you are going to get hit...

 

[Danny T]

Every lock has it's own set of escapes, and good ones have a point where you are stuck and tap.

First you prevent them from getting the opportunity to attempt the lock.

If that fails you read the lock they are doing and set up your escape as they set up the lock. (ex They are going for a armbar, you put your other hand on your head)

Failing that you stall completition until you can set up an escape (ex. grab hands together in a armbar) of course this opens up other options for them as well that you need to be aware of.

And if that fails you hope they made a technical error in their lock which gives you a escape (ex not pinching knees together on that armbar)

But the real trick lies in knowing what they are doing and what they need to have in order to do it and what the weaknesses of it are. Prevent one step and you prevent the lock. If you don't know the steps that is rather difficult though.

Excellent advise. I would like to add to this if I may.
When countering locks, Simple is best. When instructing lock counters I start students with this: What is in pain and why is it in pain? What is locked and why is it locked? Not so much as to how did it get locked but why is it locked. From there what could be done to stop the pain? We start with any joint lock and simply hold the lock at the point of pain compliance. No more. At this point there is no fighting or resistance. What can be done in one move to remove the pain. Keep It Simple!! For the most part they find out very quickly. It doesn’t take hours of training only minutes. For the most part if it is a simple lock the joint is either hypo-extended, or hyper-extended in some fashion. In the case of the arm bar above the elbow is hyper-extended. The simple counter is to “Bend” the elbow. In the case of the elbow being bent and twisted behind the back the simple counter would be to straighten the arm. Simple. The complex part comes with more resistance and movement. When to counter, when to move and in what direction. If done slowly with a willing partner who slowly increases the pressure and the speed at which the locks occur the student will very quickly learn how, when, and where to apply the counters. From there we add more complex locks from many different positions. Again working slowly, what is in pain and why is the pain there? What can be done to stop the pain. Keep it simple. It isn’t a matter of knowing what they are doing, it is a matter understanding what is locked and why. Again using the arm bar above I don’t care what the opponent is doing or not. I only need to know the elbow is being hyper- extended and therefore need to bend it. What is causing it not to bend? If it happens to be a knee pressing in on the arm then move your arm or his knee and bend the elbow. I know it is easier said than done. That is why you must work it slowly building up the pressure and speed. Most of my students learn the basics of lock counters with in two class sessions and from that point are able to apply the principles of the counters from that point on.

Keep it simple.

Danny

 

[BlackCatBonz]

There is a point of no escape, where if you don't tap your arm gets broken. So in a sense it depends on what the person is trying to do with the lock.

Like a punch, any punch can be avoided or blocked, but there is that point where if you haven't stopped it yet, you are going to get hit...

this is true. part of learning how to escape is being aware of where that point is.
every person is different in their level of flexibility and that has a bearing on escaping locks as well.
if someone has you in an armbar with their legs across your face and chest....you're probably too late.
but if i am in a standing armbar.....that is relatively easy to escape.
its all about awareness.

 

[matt.m]

Maybe in other arts..but not in Hapkido.

Nikkyo (Aikido's 2nd Technique) is part and parcel of every Hapkido Kebonsu out there..pretty much lumped together with no special order in Sohn Mok Sool or wrist techniques.

In application..the basic version of S-lock is applied directly in front of and down the assailants center line. Imagine your extended "ki" finger is a blade and you're cutting your opponent in half. These actions result in a very tight "spiralling" that produce an immediate response. The hand is neither extended outside of your own frame nor that of the opponents. No big circles here.

There are even S-Lock variations further in which produce a "cutting-back" motion to the opponents third point in a nano-second. With this variation there is NO getting out of once you have position. Another variation is known as a "centerlock" ..which does effectively as its name implies. Our business is taking centers and holding them..you have given yours up when you grabbed me..you don't get it back.

Every one of these Nikkyo-esque techniques are employed with a minimum of body movement and "drag" on the opponent. They end up being easily recalled after practice and produce the intended results without any second guessing.

Well said. Look, the best defense is not to fall victim to a lock. I know, easier said than done.