Deep Thought

[matt.m]

A quick question to all you readers. I have been thinking a lot lately considering the martial arts community. I have seen the flashy, the christian, the dungeon, the fantastic and what I consider not so fantastic.

A few thoughts come to mind.

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?
Funny, I don't hear of Kenpo, Karate, Aikido, Judo, having a big bit of infighting of "My kung fu is better than yours." With one exception, the EPAK vs. Mitose factions for Kenpo and the Kenpo 5.0 of Speakman. However, the consensus is that if you are part of the club then you are one of us.

I will say that I see more infighting among those in the Korean Martial Arts than anywhere else. I am unsure as to why this is, can someone help me out.

2. Different schools have different cirriculums and different standards, so who is to decide what is acceptable and what is not?
I have seen so many different cirriculums, I say whatever floats your boat if it is your thing then cool. Let's see......I am disabled, I wear leg braces and can't do certain kicks without modifying them a bit. Does that stop me from grading? Nope it doesn't, in Judo I instruct my students as to what to do. I help them understand the physics behind it and let them learn by feel, etc. Does that make me a less effective instructor? The GM and my students don't think so. They (Students) always come to class.

Is it up to you or I to pass judgment on what others do? No, initially our job as beginners is to investigate and observe. Afterward we find what "Spins our wheels" and makes us happy. Continue on the path. That's it. I believe if you are in Tae Kwon Do, then if you have time to "Beat up" other organizations or people verbally then you aren't working out hard enough.

3. If you like the instruction you are receiving and the group you are with then there is nothing wrong with that.
I look at it like this.....I was in the Marines, tough branch, not all people were a part of the Marine Corps but they served their country for 4 yrs. Does that make the Army, Navy, or Air Force any less valuable? No it doesn't, it just means they weren't in the Marines.

Sorry for the small rant, however I just had to vent. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

 

[SensibleManiac]

I think some people just have an aggressive need to feel and be right.
So they only feel that way if they're putting others down or finding fault with them.
It's really unfortunate.

 

[tellner]

When people pack up they need to organize themselves into hierarchies. If they were fighting a lot it would be based on who could make the other guy roll over and then ritually mount him. But we don't do that very much, so we have to find other ways to make sure things are All Sorted Out. That usually means running our mouths.

 

[tshadowchaser]

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?

Damn good question unless your thee to meet people or get a little excercise

2. Different schools have different cirriculums and different standards, so who is to decide what is acceptable and what is not?

Unless your under the authority of an organization that dictates what you teach then each individual instructor and school must decide what it is they wish to teach. It is up to those that wish to attend and study if it is what they want

3. If you like the instruction you are receiving and the group you are with then there is nothing wrong with that.

If you enjoy it good for you but that in and by itself dose not mean you are getting quality training. Heck you may even be a student of a complete fraud but if you enjoy it what can I say but good luck

 

[SamT]

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?

I take it that by "great" you mean the thing that makes it worth the time and effort to learn? For me, it's everything about Tang Soo Do that I enjoy. The self-defense techniques make me giddy with excitement at learning how they work. The mental discipline and history are things I desire and crave. The physical fitness is an obvious benefit that acts as a chocolate-peanut butter coating of goodness, filling in the gaps.

2. Different schools have different cirriculums and different standards, so who is to decide what is acceptable and what is not?

My school is under the WTSDA and the smaller ATKI, so the curriculum is a bit standardized. However, my instructor hasn't forgotten what it's like to learn an art. He knows how to challenge every level from his on down, and as he teaches, he learns where to challenge specific students and help them improve. I have faith in his teaching, and do my best to please him.

3. If you like the instruction you are receiving and the group you are with then there is nothing wrong with that.

That depends on your goals really. There's sometimes a balance between enjoying the instruction and actually learning something. What makes it enjoyable, and why do you enjoy it? If my Adv. Comp & Lit teacher just gives us paperback copies of books and tells us to read, then browses the internet for the rest of the class period, many students would enjoy that, because it gives them less of a forced workload. Myself, I enjoy it when we read in class, as it gives me a shove in the direction of actually getting the book read. The same goes for martial arts. While I may not enjoy being pushed to the very edge of my physical ability on rare occasions, and close on many occasions, I'm still happy knowing that it's improving me as a person and that I'm refining what I'm doing, and it pays off later. If someone only goes to a dojang because the drills are simple and the instructors lax, then to me, there is something wrong with that. They're not going to learn much, and will probably wind up being a negative or poor example of the martial arts. "Yeah, I got my black belt in two years, it was easy. I don't ever use that crap in real life though, it was just for fun."

I'm probably rambling on way too much now. I shall move on.

 

[Cryozombie]

I will say that I see more infighting among those in the Korean Martial Arts than anywhere else. I am unsure as to why this is, can someone help me out.

All I have to say to this is...

Check Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, Toshindo and all the made up fake *** Ninja schools like Budo Ryu, Dux Ryu, Kim's Black Dragon Ryu, The Wannabe fake *** made up Ninjas we arent allowed to name here so they cant sue Bob ryu, Tew Ryu...

I have never seen a bigger hive of politics and infighting than in the "Ninjutsu" circles. I blame 99% of it on the BS hollywood ninja hype of the 80's and every made up wannbe "I made up my own ryu by combining the TKD I learned and some Kendo and Im calling it Ninjitsu cuz "Ninjas r Teh C001!" on the problem. Why people with no Ties to the legitimate arts feel the need to use the name is beyond me. Can you Imagine me taking all the Buj stuff I learned and Calling it Jon-ryu Brazilian Ju Jitsu, cuz BJJ is all the rage now? It would be ludicris.

Grumble.

 

[Carol]

Cryo-Ryu JuJitsu has kind of a ring

 

[Cryozombie]

Cryo-Ryu JuJitsu has kind of a ring

LOL. It's never gonna happen. Sorry.

 

[seasoned]

A quick question to all you readers. I have been thinking a lot lately considering the martial arts community. I have seen the flashy, the christian, the dungeon, the fantastic and what I consider not so fantastic.

A few thoughts come to mind.

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?
Funny, I don't hear of Kenpo, Karate, Aikido, Judo, having a big bit of infighting of "My kung fu is better than yours." With one exception, the EPAK vs. Mitose factions for Kenpo and the Kenpo 5.0 of Speakman. However, the consensus is that if you are part of the club then you are one of us.

I will say that I see more infighting among those in the Korean Martial Arts than anywhere else. I am unsure as to why this is, can someone help me out.

2. Different schools have different cirriculums and different standards, so who is to decide what is acceptable and what is not?
I have seen so many different cirriculums, I say whatever floats your boat if it is your thing then cool. Let's see......I am disabled, I wear leg braces and can't do certain kicks without modifying them a bit. Does that stop me from grading? Nope it doesn't, in Judo I instruct my students as to what to do. I help them understand the physics behind it and let them learn by feel, etc. Does that make me a less effective instructor? The GM and my students don't think so. They (Students) always come to class.

Is it up to you or I to pass judgment on what others do? No, initially our job as beginners is to investigate and observe. Afterward we find what "Spins our wheels" and makes us happy. Continue on the path. That's it. I believe if you are in Tae Kwon Do, then if you have time to "Beat up" other organizations or people verbally then you aren't working out hard enough.

3. If you like the instruction you are receiving and the group you are with then there is nothing wrong with that.
I look at it like this.....I was in the Marines, tough branch, not all people were a part of the Marine Corps but they served their country for 4 yrs. Does that make the Army, Navy, or Air Force any less valuable? No it doesn't, it just means they weren't in the Marines.

Sorry for the small rant, however I just had to vent. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

Even the greatest of karate masters, observed their students and in time, allowed them to surface to their own abilities. That is why, in most traditional styles, there are so many kata. Kata were formed around body types and abilities. Each individual has their own special talents, along with certain techniques and kata, they favor over others. There is always a base curriculum that must be followed, but after many years of study, the art will produce an artist. What I feel is very noteworthy, is the fact that when the arts were passed down, it was given to a select few, but it was never about technique, but more about true heart, loyalty, integrity and patience. Then the techniques were taught. If you didn’t have the right mindset, you were taught nothing, and asked to leave. Case in point, who would, after many years of dedication and adherence to all the virtues of the arts, would decide to open up their home to teach a person of dubious character, that’s right, nobody. This type of selection, of people with integrity, is what will cause the arts, to live on, and on. What causes the opposite is greed and commercialism. The result will be a looking outward, instead of inward. IMHO :asian:

 

[Carol]

I.....can't say anything thats anywhere close to being what Seasoned said so eloquently. Of course being up all night working doesn't help.

So....my not-so-eloquent-and-subtle-as-a-jab-to-the-face-opinion:

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?

Any of these scenarios sound familiar?

- The practitioner got a hard-sell in joining the school by an owner eager to have another contract inked, or the student is getting outside pressure (ie: family) to sty when they'd rather not.

or

- They loved it once, but aren't feeling the love anymore. The folks that leave class exhausted and exhilarated generally aren't the "This sucks" complainers. But the folks that lost their motivation (whatever it was) to train are not as quick to give it all they've got in class, therefore the aren't getting as much as they can out of it either. The reason may be a lack of motivation, but it may also be due to exhaustion/depression.

or

- The student isn't gittn' what the wanna git. Maybe the instructor has said no, you can't go pound on the white belts. Or no, sparring doesn't mean you can't rip in to your training partner as hard as you want. Or no, even if you have the moves down mechanically, you still need till your belt cycle ends in 2.5 months to test.

Thats just my thoughts though. I don't teach so, I may be wayyy off.

 

[matt.m]

Yup,

I understand. Oh, the whole complete fraud thing is always out there. I mean if you have someone who teaches "Hap-ryu-kido-jitsu" to be a little bit questionable to authenticity. However, what makes it bad are people who fake a certificate and teach Bruce Lee, Jet Li, VanDamme t.v. martial arts and pass themselves off as "Grandmasters". Yikes!

I.....can't say anything thats anywhere close to being what Seasoned said so eloquently. Of course being up all night working doesn't help.

So....my not-so-eloquent-and-subtle-as-a-jab-to-the-face-opinion:

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?

Any of these scenarios sound familiar?

- The practitioner got a hard-sell in joining the school by an owner eager to have another contract inked, or the student is getting outside pressure (ie: family) to sty when they'd rather not.

or

- They loved it once, but aren't feeling the love anymore. The folks that leave class exhausted and exhilarated generally aren't the "This sucks" complainers. But the folks that lost their motivation (whatever it was) to train are not as quick to give it all they've got in class, therefore the aren't getting as much as they can out of it either. The reason may be a lack of motivation, but it may also be due to exhaustion/depression.

or

- The student isn't gittn' what the wanna git. Maybe the instructor has said no, you can't go pound on the white belts. Or no, sparring doesn't mean you can't rip in to your training partner as hard as you want. Or no, even if you have the moves down mechanically, you still need till your belt cycle ends in 2.5 months to test.

Thats just my thoughts though. I don't teach so, I may be wayyy off.

 

[Carol]

I think that happens even outside the schools that are complete frauds. I've been out in a supermarket or my chiro doc's office and a lady my age will come up to me cold and start asking me about martial arts, usually because they want to enroll their son in karate because they think it would be "good for them." Sure some kids have a genuine interest in martial arts but others get obligated in to it by their parents.

I've also seen even legitimate, rigorous schools use some hard(er) sell techniques to try to get a student to commit. I think what happens is that a school owner goes for a hard close on their first visit for the school, rather than giving them a few days or a few weeks to see if the school is really for them. The end result can be the student committing before they have a good understanding of whether it is really their cup of tea or not....then they realize they are locked down in a contract and are miserable (esp. if they don't have the negotiating skills to understand how to sign or break a contract).

 

[LawDog]

:cheers:

 

[Cirdan]

1. If you didn't believe the art you are in is great then why do it?

Indeed why? I do of course prefer my primary style over all others. That does not mean there are not other brilliant systems out there, they are just not my cup of tea.

2. Different schools have different cirriculums and different standards, so who is to decide what is acceptable and what is not?

That things are different does not mean it`s all good. Frauds are still unacceptable.

3. If you like the instruction you are receiving and the group you are with then there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Unless your instructor is named Ashida Kim or Bruce Calkins.