De-buffing the Myth of Richard III

[Tez3]

well, the tower was a castle first, royal residence...

BUT...they always had those little chambers in the basement the content of which was often forgotten...not just in the Tower of London...a rather universal thing....monestaries and convents were another place where you didn't want to be against your wishes...

My other half has done Public Duties in the Tower (means he did the guards there) and there are no dungeons, the rooms are all in towers and in the main buildings. It was a proper castle not a prison. It was first used to house prisoners by Henry the Eight, including his wives.

Yes we have plenty of Catholic chapels in Yorkshire including one in Middleham by Richard's castle. We have the ruins of several magnificent abbeys here, destroyed by Henry the Eighth, he also massacred many in the North.
http://suite101.com/article/the-pilgrimage-of-grace-a113234

Robert Aske came from a couple of miles from where I am and his home Aske Hall is still standing though with improvements made over the centuries, one tower has been untouched though since 12th century.

 

[granfire]

My other half has done Public Duties in the Tower (means he did the guards there) and there are no dungeons, the rooms are all in towers and in the main buildings. It was a proper castle not a prison. It was first used to house prisoners by Henry the Eight, including his wives.

Yes we have plenty of Catholic chapels in Yorkshire including one in Middleham by Richard's castle. We have the ruins of several magnificent abbeys here, destroyed by Henry the Eighth, he also massacred many in the North.
http://suite101.com/article/the-pilgrimage-of-grace-a113234

Robert Aske came from a couple of miles from where I am and his home Aske Hall is still standing though with improvements made over the centuries, one tower has been untouched though since 12th century.

I think the modern day tower lost a few parts over the centuries. A Gaol or similar hold was usually standard equipment...

but yeah, in those days, walls could close in on you quickly, even in your own house...
and when the king told you to move some place, it was hardly good...be it castle or convent....

 

[Tez3]

Only aristocrats were put into the Tower of London so it was never a gruesome prison., a surprising amount of them actually were released thught it's the executions that are most remembered. It's had more and more added to it over the centuries rather than lose anything.
This is a site for Americans! http://www.visitbritainshop.com/usa...e-dungeons-with-an-english-heritage-pass.html

We have several castle around us including Bolton Castle which a friend of my daughters owns, it's been in the family since it was built in the 12th century. Richard would have known them as neighbours and supporters. they suffered under Henry the Eighth though as they supported the Pilgrimage of Grace.

Yu do realis I'm a total fanatic about Richard don't you rofl!

 

[granfire]

Only aristocrats were put into the Tower of London so it was never a gruesome prison., a surprising amount of them actually were released thught it's the executions that are most remembered. It's had more and more added to it over the centuries rather than lose anything.
This is a site for Americans! http://www.visitbritainshop.com/usa...e-dungeons-with-an-english-heritage-pass.html

We have several castle around us including Bolton Castle which a friend of my daughters owns, it's been in the family since it was built in the 12th century. Richard would have known them as neighbours and supporters. they suffered under Henry the Eighth though as they supported the Pilgrimage of Grace.

Yu do realis I'm a total fanatic about Richard don't you rofl!

Fangirling, eh?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Phew got there in the end! By all contemporay accounts the marriage of Elizabeth and Henry the Seventh was supposed to have actually been a happy one, they had seven living children (more than the heir and spare usually demanded) and when she died he went into deep mourning and spent a fortune on the funeral, he also never remarried when it would have been expedient to, strange but I'm guessing that the Tudors and the Plantagenets were bound together by relationships in common anyway.
Richard the Third's mother Cecily was born just up the road from me at Raby Castle in Durham. One of Elizabeth's sisters married the Duke of Norfolk another family like the Percy's who are still going. it's the premier Dukedom in the country and they are descended form Edward the First, they are also Catholic which causes certain problesm in the aristocracy here and talking of the Catholic Church.....
They have entered the reburial argument now, as Richard had been a Catholic they think it improper for him to be buried in a Church of England Cathedral especially is the service is a Protestant one.

Thank You, the history of Great Britain the visibility of it as well as the traceability of it just amazes me

Also I find it amazing, although not surprising that there are still Catholic vs. Protestant issues…that’s is what got my family out of Ireland and Canada… other..ummm…stuff got them out of Scotland…. But regardless let’s not tell them my mother-in-laws a Buddhist ok.

 

[Tez3]

Thank You, the history of Great Britain the visibility of it as well as the traceability of it just amazes me

Also I find it amazing, although not surprising that there are still Catholic vs. Protestant issues…that’s is what got my family out of Ireland and Canada… other..ummm…stuff got them out of Scotland…. But regardless let’s not tell them my mother-in-laws a Buddhist ok.

Ah but as they say in Belfast is she a Catholic Buddhist or a Protestant one?

The religious divide is still a big one, started by Henry the Eighth of course, a cursed Tudor it still blights our country especially in Northern Ireland and to a lesser degree in Scotland.


Much as I enjoy Shakespeare I've always had sympathy for Richard the Third ever since I could remember. Moving into his 'lands' was a bonus, there's much here that if he came back he'd recognise, changes are very very slow here. heck if the Vikings came back they'd still recognise it, many of the place names are Norse. Richards still remembered here fondly not with disdain. Pubs are named after him. It's about time people realised that history is written by the winners, it's good to remember that always in fact.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ah but as they say in Belfast is she a Catholic Buddhist or a Protestant one?

The religious divide is still a big one, started by Henry the Eighth of course, a cursed Tudor it still blights our country especially in Northern Ireland and to a lesser degree in Scotland.

I will have to ask....of course I have to first figure out how to say Catholic and Protestant in Mandarin

Much as I enjoy Shakespeare I've always had sympathy for Richard the Third ever since I could remember. Moving into his 'lands' was a bonus, there's much here that if he came back he'd recognise, changes are very very slow here. heck if the Vikings came back they'd still recognise it, many of the place names are Norse. Richards still remembered here fondly not with disdain. Pubs are named after him.

That is cool, there is very little here that George Washington would recognize and that is only a little over 200 years ago.

It's about time people realised that history is written by the winners, it's good to remember that always in fact.

You should see the history of the Little Bighorn (Custer's Last Stand) I was taught when I was in school.... as compared to what is taught today, they are not the same and the latter is by far much more historically accurate

 

[Tez3]

One of the things that sticks in my mind is the story of Canute trying to hold the sea back, people laugh at this and think he was an idiot but it seems the true story is very different.
http://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/123/Canute%20Waves.htm

In many places in the UK things don't change, the past is still very much with us. While people don't actually remember Richard the Third of course, it still doesn't seem as if it was that long ago here. It's quite galling of course for some city types that mistakenly think the countryside is a 'nice' place to live ( it isn't it's very hard work) but history is always with us. The locals' memories are also made up of their ancestors memories as well. Many can go back generations.
http://www.middlehamonline.com/Middleham Castle.htm

On the photo of the street there's a pub the mucky duck (properly it's the Black Swan lol ) my daughter works in there part time!

Just for Granfire..from the same site http://www.middlehamonline.com/Trooper Middleham.htm

 

[Xue Sheng]

One of the things that sticks in my mind is the story of Canute trying to hold the sea back, people laugh at this and think he was an idiot but it seems the true story is very different.
http://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/123/Canute%20Waves.htm

Not sure how much trouble this will get me in but I beleive my family shows up in England with the Danes and then gets erased from English history with the Tudors.

 

[granfire]

One of the things that sticks in my mind is the story of Canute trying to hold the sea back, people laugh at this and think he was an idiot but it seems the true story is very different.
http://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/123/Canute%20Waves.htm

In many places in the UK things don't change, the past is still very much with us. While people don't actually remember Richard the Third of course, it still doesn't seem as if it was that long ago here. It's quite galling of course for some city types that mistakenly think the countryside is a 'nice' place to live ( it isn't it's very hard work) but history is always with us. The locals' memories are also made up of their ancestors memories as well. Many can go back generations.
http://www.middlehamonline.com/Middleham Castle.htm

On the photo of the street there's a pub the mucky duck (properly it's the Black Swan lol ) my daughter works in there part time!

Just for Granfire..from the same site http://www.middlehamonline.com/Trooper Middleham.htm

^_^

what a handsome trooper he is, too!
:inlove:

 

[Xue Sheng]

The irony of being kicked out is that today I might be related to the House of Brunswick, Hanover Line….many many times removed. Once the family went to the USA they married Germans….some actually Prussians who were related to Fredrick the Great of Prussia (likely direct line to one of his siblings). Now I never looked into it because I seriously doubt I am in line of succession to the English crown and Prussia no longer exists but according to my ex-wife, who was very much into this sort of thing that relates my family to the House of Brunswick via George I

 

[Tez3]

A while back the IRA threatened to blow up the Royal Family to end the Crown but a newspaper here showed how there are literally thousands in line to the throne! And that was just in this country, go further afield including America you'd find even more!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

 

[Xue Sheng]

A while back the IRA threatened to blow up the Royal Family to end the Crown but a newspaper here showed how there are literally thousands in line to the throne! And that was just in this country, go further afield including America you'd find even more!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

Well then all I need is the list and then...It's KING XUE!!!!! oh this can't be good

 

[Tez3]

Well then all I need is the list and then...It's KING XUE!!!!! oh this can't be good

As long as you aren't a Catholic! Still banned I'm afraid. I can't see them being too chuffed with me either lol. It's not a bad life being Royal though. It's what you make it lol. You can be the Prince Harry type or Princess Snooty type (Princess Micheal of Kent).

Try this list!
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

 

[granfire]

As long as you aren't a Catholic! Still banned I'm afraid. I can't see them being too chuffed with me either lol. It's not a bad life being Royal though. It's what you make it lol. You can be the Prince Harry type or Princess Snooty type (Princess Micheal of Kent).

Try this list!
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

gawd, my eyes are glazing over....

 

[Xue Sheng]

gawd, my eyes are glazing over....

Forget that...all you have to know is King Xue :EG:

 

[granfire]

Forget that...all you have to know is King Xue :EG:

of course!

(did you find your name on the list?)

Do these people know they are like 2500th on the list to the throne?

 

[Xue Sheng]

of course!

(did you find your name on the list?)

Do these people know they are like 2500th on the list to the throne?

Why would I warn them..... not to worry.... I will be higher on the list soon enough....now that I know who the competition is :EG:

 

[punisher73]

Shakespeare involved in propaganda! Say it ain't so! LOL

Interesting read. Thanks!

May have been one of the few original things he wrote. LOL