Dazed and confused

[terryl965]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport? I was at my school working out with some other people when I was ask by a adult student, why is it that all my friend say I am taking a sport and not a true system for the art? My only reply was so many people only know about the sportside to TKD that is what is so popular with today dojaangs. All he said was that is too bad, because there is so much more to it than that.

I guess I am just stupid with the perception that is truely out there.

 

[ATC]

I would not worry about it. Just keep teaching quality lessons and let the talkers talk.

 

[granfire]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport? I was at my school working out with some other people when I was ask by a adult student, why is it that all my friend say I am taking a sport and not a true system for the art? My only reply was so many people only know about the sportside to TKD that is what is so popular with today dojaangs. All he said was that is too bad, because there is so much more to it than that.

I guess I am just stupid with the perception that is truely out there.

Was he for or against the more than sport aspect?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hey Terry,

I understand your pain but you know and I know what you and your people are capable of. Keep going and change the image!

 

[terryl965]

Was he for or against the more than sport aspect?

He does not do the sport, he is in more of a traditional class that I teach.

 

[MJS]

Question from a non-TKD person. What are the major differences between sport TKD and the more traditional TKD? I mean, if I were to walk into a TKD school, would I be able to tell, within the first few minutes of watching a class, whether or not it was sport or more traditional?

 

[IcemanSK]

I've heard "TKD is a sport, not an Art" for a long time, too. I used to hear it from folks who take "serious" versions of Karate. I've watched a lot of the show "Fight Quest," where these 2 guys train in an MA & then fight folks from that Art. Few of them had punching to the face in these contests, either. But that's off the point.

I find myself between two worlds with my school. I'm not big on tournaments. If my students never go to tournaments, that wouldn't bother me. Yet some of my TKD brethren think I'm not being true to my Art, because of that. Not that I care, but it is funny to hear.

As the saying goes, "to thine own self be true." That's all we can do.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport? I was at my school working out with some other people when I was ask by a adult student, why is it that all my friend say I am taking a sport and not a true system for the art?

Because the WTF - the most visible and largest TKD body in the world is a sports organization which has as its main goal the promotion of TKD as an Olympic sport. The basic view that the general public has of Taekwon-Do is a sport and that's been by design, it seems to me.

My only reply was so many people only know about the sportside to TKD that is what is so popular with today dojaangs. All he said was that is too bad, because there is so much more to it than that.

Yes there sure is. Sport competition is not a bad thing per se, but it is limited and, especially for the elite level of competition in the Olympics, lasts only a relatively short time. Maybe the people who focus on sport training will, when they're done competing, focus more on the martial art side of, well, their martial art.

Pax,

Chris

 

[terryl965]

Question from a non-TKD person. What are the major differences between sport TKD and the more traditional TKD? I mean, if I were to walk into a TKD school, would I be able to tell, within the first few minutes of watching a class, whether or not it was sport or more traditional?

In most schools YES they work on footwork drills and they keep the hands down alot.

In my traditional class it is more about S.D. principles and breaking down techniques inside a poomsae and not making it look so dance like movements.

Please do not get me wrong I teach both the sport and the traditional aspect of TKD but so many does not ever relize there is more to it than the sport.

 

[MJS]

In most schools YES they work on footwork drills and they keep the hands down alot.

In my traditional class it is more about S.D. principles and breaking down techniques inside a poomsae and not making it look so dance like movements.

Please do not get me wrong I teach both the sport and the traditional aspect of TKD but so many does not ever relize there is more to it than the sport.

Thanks for the reply Terry. Another question for you. If we were to look at the number of TKD schools in a given area, for example, we'll use the state that you live in, how many of those schools would be considered sport vs. more traditional? If the number of sport outweighs the traditional, then I would say that would probably be one reason why people view things as they do. If all they see is sport, then thats going to be the picture that they're left with.

 

[terryl965]

Thanks for the reply Terry. Another question for you. If we were to look at the number of TKD schools in a given area, for example, we'll use the state that you live in, how many of those schools would be considered sport vs. more traditional? If the number of sport outweighs the traditional, then I would say that would probably be one reason why people view things as they do. If all they see is sport, then thats going to be the picture that they're left with.

Yes they are about 9-1 sport vs traditional, I see your point...

 

[StudentCarl]

For any who haven't read it, there's an interesting article that discusses philosophy and sport taekwondo in the coaching section of the USAT website. From the USAT main page, click Coaching, then Associate Coach Course, then History of Taekwondo.

I don't think the lessons of sparring and competition are limited to one's most competitive years. I do think sparring adds depth and color to the meaning of taekwondo by grounding you in the now of an opponent in your face--and how you respond. It's a test of more than technical skills, and a crucible for growth as a person. Great effort, focus and perseverence in any area results in personal growth, but I think the pressure of combative competition adds more.

In the ring you face two opponents--one inside your head and one across from you--and both have much to teach.

I would like to see more discussion and development of the philosophy of competitive TKD. I think it's been too common to read that art and sport are separate and that philosophical meaning resides only in the traditional art.

Carl

 

[terryl965]

I would like to see more discussion and development of the philosophy of competitive TKD. I think it's been too common to read that art and sport are separate and that philosophical meaning resides only in the traditional art.

Carl

I would too but the problem is when and where, every once in a great while there might be a little. It is never too late to learn but sometime people are just to gulp in the art vs. sport thing to see.

 

[StudentCarl]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport?

Let's back up and examine the implication that being a 'sport' is a negative. For some people a sport is a pastime for casual play, but for others it is a way of life that teaches lasting lessons and influences other parts of one's life and personal growth.

I know I have seen TKD students who aren't very committed, and thus limit their growth. But I've also seen people whose lives have been meaningfully changed by TKD. I've seen other sports become a way of life too. Just because something is a sport doesn't mean it can't also be very meaningful. Perhaps it depends on what you invest and what you seek.

I give my all to my sport/art/do...and I get a lot back.

 

[terryl965]

Not saying the sport is bad just that in most cases the sport is less than all, it leaves gaps in one training. Alot of sport school never ever touch base with the S.D. principle on the art side or the DO in Tae Kwon....I have my own sons doing the sport thing and they love the competition and strong companships and friends they have made, but I also teach the art side of TKD as well. This has some benefit for them outside the ring.

I have seen so many sport school that try and pass off the sport as a reaal S.D type of training which it is not..

 

[StudentCarl]

Terry,
I completely agree, and personally believe the SD gets left out too much. I think both the art/SD and sport and vital to taekwondo's value. Perhaps what needs to emerge is philosophy that articulates the need for both to maximize one's growth. I'd really like to write something to publish but need to learn much more and to build the base of sources and resources to make it more than an opinion/editorial. That's one reason I hope to see more discussion of the topic here.

Carl

 

[terryl965]

Terry,
I completely agree, and personally believe the SD gets left out too much. I think both the art/SD and sport and vital to taekwondo's value. Perhaps what needs to emerge is philosophy that articulates the need for both to maximize one's growth. I'd really like to write something to publish but need to learn much more and to build the base of sources and resources to make it more than an opinion/editorial. That's one reason I hope to see more discussion of the topic here.

Carl

Ask me anything, I have incorporated all three for over thirty years. My son's and wife has competed at high levels and done well. I am with you.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport? I was at my school working out with some other people when I was ask by a adult student, why is it that all my friend say I am taking a sport and not a true system for the art? My only reply was so many people only know about the sportside to TKD that is what is so popular with today dojaangs. All he said was that is too bad, because there is so much more to it than that.

I guess I am just stupid with the perception that is truely out there.

Try training Taijiquan

 

[Manny]

Why is it so hard for people to believe TKD is more than a sport? I was at my school working out with some other people when I was ask by a adult student, why is it that all my friend say I am taking a sport and not a true system for the art? My only reply was so many people only know about the sportside to TKD that is what is so popular with today dojaangs. All he said was that is too bad, because there is so much more to it than that.

I guess I am just stupid with the perception that is truely out there.

You are not stupid, the perception of the people about TKD is a full contact kicking sport where the competitors use full body armor!!!! Yes believe me some people thing we wear body armor because of the helmet,chest guard (hogu),elbow/forearm pads, gloves, groing protector,shin/instep pads.

Something I like about TKD is that is very popular with 190 countries training TKD, Oman is the latest country to adhere to the WTF, TKD is more known that other MA's sadly all the wolrdwide difussion about it is WTF competition and those flashy/aerobic kicks (that are good for show but not for real sd).

Like you sometimes I get mad about people and other MA practicioners telling me TKD is a nice sport but not a truly MA, and sometimes I just answer the people this:

Yeah, we do a lot of kicking, you say is unpractical, but ,if with a good punch I can take your breath away with a nice kick I can break your rib cage... or what about this... yes a punch can be faster but a kick is desvasting... or.... I invite you to a full TKD class and let's see if you can endure it.... or.... you are faster with your fists but I will keep you at bay with my kicks any time.

Some times I just think other MA like to speak bad of TKD because of jaelosy, lets face it TKD is a wonderfull MA, very flashy,very strong and with so much suport from KUKIWON and WTF something no other MA has.

Manny

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think that a lot of the issue is the ratio (9-1 sport in one of your previous posts, Terry) and the very sharp divide between Taekwondo as a martial art/SD system and the WTF sport, which is the most common and the most visible to the layman.

Boxing really doesn't have these issues. Most people just assume that a boxer can handle themselves in a 'real fight' and call it a sport only because it was never called a martial art. Also, boxing organizations do not have the issue of trying to establish their identity. The Kukkiwon/WTF needs to promote it as a sport in order to obtain sponsorship dollars and olympic inclusion, but also wants to say that its a martial art too. Boxing is just a violent sport, so it doesn't have to be promoted in two different ways simultaneously.

Since boxers don't go on Martialtalk and question sport boxing versus MA boxing, it is a dead issue.

Also, you don't see mini mall boxing gyms filled with padded up children who obviously cannot fight being awarded prizes that say they can, with 'coaches' making the excuse that boxing is a sport and not real fighting. This last one is probably the one that throws the most fuel on the fire.

Another issue is that boxers don't compromise their balance in order to get a 'high' punch, sometimes falling in the process, while TKD players sometimes do.

As to what should be done about it, well, that discussion has been had numerous times. The only sure answer is for Terry to take over the Kukkiwon.

Daniel