Dan Inosanto quote

[meltdown51]

I posted this on another forum and thought I would bring it up here.

This is a quote from Dan Inosanto in his book Jeet Kune Do The Art And Philosophy Of Bruce Lee page 145
"An individual can not learn the principal roots of Jeet Kune Do through the accumulation of many different styles; for that would be like a singer trying to improve his voice by accumulating many songs. Rather: it is by understanding the roots of the problem. - Dan Inosanto 1969."
Just wanted to know what other people think about this quote and the fact it was said by Dan Inosanto.

Joe

 

[jmdrake]

Hello meltdown,

Do you actually have a copy of that book? If so hold on to it! (Unless you want to sell it to me for a reasonable price. *grin*) I looked for it at Amazon.com and it was only available for resale. The "cheapest" one was $65.00!

Anyway, what do I think of the quote? Well personally I agree with it. Of course the big question is does Dan Inosanto still agree with it? I'm not sure, but from talking to people that currently train with Dan (as opposed to some people who train with someone who trained with someone who trained with Dan) I think it's possible that it still fits his current philosophy. Let me explain. At his school there are classes on "Jun Fan Gung Fu" and "Jun Fan kickboxing". These are taught seperately from Kali, Silat ect. From what I gather Sifu Inosanto instructs his students that they must understand the "Jun Fan base" in order to understand JKD. Then once they have that "base" down they can better understand other arts. (If anyone who's reading this actually trains with Sifu Inosanto PLEASE feel free to correct me.) Still it would be interested to hear what Sifu Inosanto's current take on this quote is. Personally I think the "JKD base" provides one helluva fighting art.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[bscastro]

I think he is right and that in a way, he still follows his words, although he continues to explore different martial arts systems. However, I think he is also at a point of his development where he probably understands fighting pretty well. Now, he wants to explore the different branches of martial arts, and see how the "root" expresses itself in each branch. Also, he's probably looking at teaching methods, little nuances between different styles, etc. For most of us, we are still trying to learn to fight or master our skills--learning how to fight or defend ourselves. For him, he is a researcher, seeing the beauty of the "whole tree" of martial arts...not forgetting the roots, but taking the time to appreciate the branches. I don't know him personally, but from talking to a couple of his students and reading a couple of his interviews, that's my take on it.

Regards,
Bryan :asian:

 

[Mormegil]

Originally posted by jmdrake
Hello meltdown,

Do you actually have a copy of that book? If so hold on to it! (Unless you want to sell it to me for a reasonable price. *grin*) I looked for it at Amazon.com and it was only available for resale. The "cheapest" one was $65.00!

Anyway, what do I think of the quote? Well personally I agree with it. Of course the big question is does Dan Inosanto still agree with it? I'm not sure, but from talking to people that currently train with Dan (as opposed to some people who train with someone who trained with someone who trained with Dan) I think it's possible that it still fits his current philosophy. Let me explain. At his school there are classes on "Jun Fan Gung Fu" and "Jun Fan kickboxing". These are taught seperately from Kali, Silat ect. From what I gather Sifu Inosanto instructs his students that they must understand the "Jun Fan base" in order to understand JKD. Then once they have that "base" down they can better understand other arts. (If anyone who's reading this actually trains with Sifu Inosanto PLEASE feel free to correct me.) Still it would be interested to hear what Sifu Inosanto's current take on this quote is. Personally I think the "JKD base" provides one helluva fighting art.

Regards,

John M. Drake

The curriculum is still set up that way. Here's the schedule: http://www.inosanto.com/acadinfo/schedule/index.htm

I can ask him next week if he still sticks to this philosophy. I believe he does. I only take one class a week right now, so I don't get a lot of time with him (grad student), and am in "Phase I." He just called me by my first name for the first time since I've been there yesterday.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by meltdown51
I posted this on another forum and thought I would bring it up here.

This is a quote from Dan Inosanto in his book Jeet Kune Do The Art And Philosophy Of Bruce Lee page 145
"An individual can not learn the principal roots of Jeet Kune Do through the accumulation of many different styles; for that would be like a singer trying to improve his voice by accumulating many songs. Rather: it is by understanding the roots of the problem. - Dan Inosanto 1969."
Just wanted to know what other people think about this quote and the fact it was said by Dan Inosanto.

Joe

I think this is something Guro Dan has believed since the beginning, and that it has continued to guide his teaching ever since. I don't think this is one of those OJKD vs. Concepts things either.

I think the key here is in use of the word "accumulation." The way its used, it doesn't sound to me like it has a good connotation. To me, I think he's saying that JKD is not about, "let's take this kick from Savate, this choke from jujitsu, this leg lock from Sambo, etc..., and put it in my toolbox and see what happens." If you do that, you end up being someone with just a bunch of techniques, and you can't meld them together in any way. It's not the guy (or gal) with the most techniques who wins -- its the one who can use the techniques they have most effectively. Even the classical MA subscribe to this philosophy. Shotokan and Judo, for example, both teach the student that perfecting a handful of techniques is better than learning a little bit about a whole bunch. The techniques and the songs are the same thing. Wouldn't you be better off doing a self study, assessing where you're strong and weak points and/or areas are, and enhance the strengths and eliminate the weaknesses? You wouldn't want to end up a "jack of all trades, master of none", right? I always kind of thought that was what JKD was all about; not the collecting of techniques. Granted, that is a temptation many of us are prone to given the fact we have access to so much material.

Now, if Guro Dan had used the word "mastery" instead, than that would be a different story. I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth, as I am hardly qualified to do so, but my guess is that if you ask him if he still believes this, that is what he'll say. BTW, this is very similar to things Sijo Bruce said during his lifetime as well. Is it really any different than:

Absorb what is useful (to you)
Reject what is useless (to you)
Add what is specifically your own

?

 

[pesilat]

Absolutely. As is commonly heard, it's not about gathering, it's about carving away the nonessentials. But in order to carve, you must first gather the raw material. Then you must test it and analyze it to assess its essentialness. Then you have to carve away the nonessentials.

I think a lot of people get caught up in the gathering of raw materials and never get around to the carving part.

However, I've also heard Guro Dan talk about changing values. What's nonessential at 20 may be mandatory at 40. And what works at 40 may not work at 50.

I think this factor, along with plain old curiosity, is what leads Guro Dan to continue to explore.

Yes, he's got a good sculpture carved (a few of them, I'd say). But he knows that with each passing year, he changes. His requirements change. So he can't sit on the porch and admire what he has previously carved, he has to go out, gather more material, and continue sculpting what works for him in his present state and mood.

At least, that's my take on it.

Mike

 

[pknox]

Well put, pesilat.

I would also add that in addition to changing values based on your increasing age and ever-evolving body type, and plain old curiosity, I think that increased access has also been a factor. Many of us, for example, have studied Sambo leg locks. For submission grapplers of today, it is almost a requirement, as even if you don't apply them yourself, they may be applied on you, and you would need to know the mechanics of how they work in order to understand application of the counter(s). In addition, even if you are not a submission grappler, but instead wish to be a JKD practitioner who is comfortable in all ranges, the increased access to this series of techniques has lead to a greater likelihood of encountering someone with this type of experience on the street; therefore you must at least make some type of allowance for it when you train your grappling range. Twenty years ago, few people had even heard of Sambo, nevermind studied any techniques from it. Many examples similar to the above can also be taken from BJJ, Shootwrestling, Bando, and some more esoteric forms of Silat.

Its in the above area that I think men like Guro Dan will really leave their mark -- showing us new approaches from newly discovered art forms, and spurring us to continue researching and developing after they have gone. If JKD were a company, many people would consider Guro Dan it's CEO. Based on the comments I've read from the man, my guess is he'd rather be considered it's head of R&D.

 

[sweeper]

well I think one of the biggest developments in MA since the early 70s is MMA and NHB fighting.. I tihnk it's getting more popular to practice in some form or another so I think you can expect some more well rounded fighters, I think also like you said because of the increased popularity in ground fighting you have to know how to deffend against it better.