Cure for depression?

[Gyakuto]

Researchers found that a single, carefully administered dose of psilocybin can produce rapid and sustained improvements in individuals with severe treatment-resistant depression, offering new hope when traditional therapies have failed.

Single-Dose Psilocybin for Depression With Severe Treatment Resistance: An Open-Label Trial - PubMed

This open-label study suggests efficacy and safety of psilocybin in severe TRD and supports further study of psychedelics in this population, including consideration of PTSD interaction effects.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The participants had tried at least five prior treatments without any improvement. Then, they received one 25-milligram dose of psilocybin alongside psychological support. Just three weeks after treatment, the changes were hard to deny. Nearly 70 percent of participants experienced a signification reduction in their symptoms, and 42 percent achieved complete remission.

The results indicated that the benefits lasted up to 3 months, suggesting one treatment could have long-term benefits. The treatment was well-tolerated with no serious adverse effects reported, underscoring its potential as a safe alternative for people with limited options.

 

[HighKick]

Researchers found that a single, carefully administered dose of psilocybin can produce rapid and sustained improvements in individuals with severe treatment-resistant depression, offering new hope when traditional therapies have failed.

Single-Dose Psilocybin for Depression With Severe Treatment Resistance: An Open-Label Trial - PubMed

This open-label study suggests efficacy and safety of psilocybin in severe TRD and supports further study of psychedelics in this population, including consideration of PTSD interaction effects.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The participants had tried at least five prior treatments without any improvement. Then, they received one 25-milligram dose of psilocybin alongside psychological support. Just three weeks after treatment, the changes were hard to deny. Nearly 70 percent of participants experienced a signification reduction in their symptoms, and 42 percent achieved complete remission.

The results indicated that the benefits lasted up to 3 months, suggesting one treatment could have long-term benefits. The treatment was well-tolerated with no serious adverse effects reported, underscoring its potential as a safe alternative for people with limited options.

So, you will promote a hallucinogenic but worry about ground wheat?

 

[Gyakuto]

So, you will promote a hallucinogenic but worry about ground wheat?

Am I promoting it or informing those interested in such things?

 

[HighKick]

Am I promoting it or informing those interested in such things?

Fair enough, but hard pass for me.
I am open to a homeopathic approach and do use some but have no desire to alter my mind or thinking.

 

[Gyakuto]

I am open to a homeopathic approach and do use some

Homeopathy is total bunkum…it’s a scam.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=homeopathic+a+and+e

but have no desire to alter my mind or thinking.

You might not say that if you had intractable depression.

 

[Fungus]

Single dose? Wow that is interesting indeed.

Also interesting as 5-HT2A activation suppresses the other serotonin receptors, such as 5-HT1A with is the main normal target in depression, which is why 5-HT2A antagonists enhance SSRI drugs in depression. But I suppose this also indicates how heterogenous depressions are as well?! After all this was for treatment resistance depression, which is indicative of different mechanisms.

I wonder if the "direction" of neuroplastic changes, is effectively in the right direction in this case? Is it coincidental, or does this appear sponteanously as plasticity increases because of the depression itself - self healing??

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Mushroom stroganoff, anyone?

 

[Gyakuto]

Single dose? Wow that is interesting indeed.

Also interesting as 5-HT2A activation suppresses the other serotonin receptors, such as 5-HT1A with is the main normal target in depression, which is why 5-HT2A antagonists enhance SSRI drugs in depression. But I suppose this also indicates how heterogenous depressions are as well?! After all this was for treatment resistance depression, which is indicative of different mechanisms.

I wonder if the "direction" of neuroplastic changes, is effectively in the right direction in this case? Is it coincidental, or does this appear sponteanously as plasticity increases because of the depression itself - self healing??

For many years, depression was seen as a neurochemical pathology centring on substances such as orexin, serotonin etc. Drugs were developed to modulate their activities which worked very quickly after administeration, within hours sometimes, but the depressive state often took weeks, month or sometimes, never lifted. This didn’t make sense and it was realised that something else was going on. Today, the focus on this biomedical model of depression has shifted away to ‘we don’t really know’. It’s a bit of a shame because the biomedical model of depression took away the ‘blame’ for depression from the sufferer; “You, your parents, your lifestyle etc haven’t facilitated your depression’s onset, it’s your brain chemicals just like if you had a thyroid issue or something”! Now we can’t really say that which can add to the suffering.

True depression is terrible. If psilocybin can cure it or ameliorate it’s symptoms but we don’t understand it’s mechanisms, then so be it, we will work it out. One’s moral beliefs on this substance have no bearing on it, and if you suffered from depression and have moral issues about the cure for it, then go ahead and refuse it, but one shouldn’t impose one’s own values on others (Nancy Reagan has a lot to answer for and has put this branch of research back by decades).

 

[Fungus]

For many years, depression was seen as a neurochemical pathology centring on substances such as orexin, serotonin etc. Drugs were developed to modulate their activities which worked very quickly after administeration, within hours sometimes, but the depressive state often took weeks, month or sometimes, never lifted. This didn’t make sense and it was realised that something else was going on. Today, the focus on this biomedical model of depression has shifted away to ‘we don’t really know’. It’s a bit of a shame because the biomedical model of depression took away the ‘blame’ for depression from the sufferer; “You, your parents, your lifestyle etc haven’t facilitated your depression’s onset, it’s your brain chemicals just like if you had a thyroid issue or something”! Now we can’t really say that which can add to the suffering.

True depression is terrible. If psilocybin can cure it or ameliorate it’s symptoms but we don’t understand it’s mechanisms, then so be it, we will work it out. One’s moral beliefs on this substance have no bearing on it, and if you suffered from depression and have moral issues about the cure for it, then go ahead and refuse it, but one shouldn’t impose one’s own values on others (Nancy Reagan has a lot to answer for and has put this branch of research back by decades).

I certainly have no moral issues, that didn't even occur to me. I am just curious to understand. The brain is one of the more interesting systems to understand.

My current impression is that one problem of why some drugs work and some don't in many neuropsychiatric conditions is that what are catogoried into a handful diagnosis, are really very heterogenous conditions. So sometimes the categorisation into a few diagnosis is limiting rather than helping. I believe there are many subcategories of "depression", with different mechanisms, so do find a single cure for 100% of those patients seems unreasonable.

 

[Gyakuto]

I certainly have no moral issues, that didn't even occur to me.

Oh I didn’t mean you, Fungus…you’re a man of science!

I am just curious to understand. The brain is one of the more interesting systems to understand.

If the brain was simple enough to understand, we would be so simple that we couldn’t!

My current impression is that one problem of why some drugs work and some don't in many neuropsychiatric conditions is that what are catogoried into a handful diagnosis, are really very heterogenous conditions. So sometimes the categorisation into a few diagnosis is limiting rather than helping. I believe there are many subcategories of "depression", with different mechanisms, so do find a single cure for 100% of those patients seems unreasonable.

Have you heard of the DSM-V. It categorises all recognised psychiatric conditions according to their core symptoms. It makes for interesting reading.

One other issue with pharmaceutical treatments is the drug doesn’t necessarily bind to the (brain) cell receptor with consistent efficacy (‘lock and key’)They have a range of affinities and individual may have slightly different receptor structures adding to the complexity of predicting drug actions. It’s very complex so when a new drug is developed that has a positive effect, it’s a really big thing (semaglutide is a real miracle despite what some people think).

 

[Same Trick]

Nancy Reagan?! I remember reading that she used to eat two bananas before bedtime cause it made her sleep well….

For some reason this info has stuck??

 

[Fungus]

Have you heard of the DSM-V. It categorises all recognised psychiatric conditions according to their core symptoms. It makes for interesting reading.

Yes, I am well aware of that. What I meant is that any same symptom profile (no matter how it is categorised) can have an array of ethiologies. And to choose the right treatment, it is the ethiology that needs to be categorized, not the symptoms; which of course is not always known for many conditions and that is the real problem

One other issue with pharmaceutical treatments is the drug doesn’t necessarily bind to the (brain) cell receptor with consistent efficacy (‘lock and key’)They have a range of affinities and individual may have slightly different receptor structures adding to the complexity of predicting drug actions. It’s very complex so when a new drug is developed that has a positive effect, it’s a really big thing (semaglutide is a real miracle despite what some people think).

Yes, this seems really complex, which is why it caught my attention, even though I am not primarily into neuroscience. But I am into the process of making models of complex systems per see. And the brain is an excellent model system, that is intuitive in a way.

 

[Gyakuto]

Nancy Reagan?! I remember reading that she used to eat two bananas before bedtime cause it made her sleep well….

Yes, she was key in the ‘war in drugs’ that made all drugs (except alcohol and tobacco… the worst offender) taboo. As a consequence all research on things like psilocybin and other potentially therapeutic drugs was halted. It’s only in recent years that scientific research on psychoactive drugs has recommenced. She was a very stupid woman.

 

[Gyakuto]

Yes, I am well aware of that. What I meant is that any same symptom profile (no matter how it is categorised) can have an array of ethiologies. And to choose the right treatment, it is the ethiology that needs to be categorized, not the symptoms; which of course is not always known for many conditions and that is the real problem

Perhaps this is why we have a carbon-based psychiatric to use their experiences and observations to make an informed judgement in treatment.

Yes, this seems really complex, which is why it caught my attention, even though I am not primarily into neuroscience. But I am into the process of making models of complex systems per see. And the brain is an excellent model system, that is intuitive in a way.

It’s so complex and I think our understanding of it is misplaced. We need our ‘black body radiation’ moment to usher in a new perspective on its function.

 

[Fungus]

It’s so complex and I think our understanding of it is misplaced. We need our ‘black body radiation’ moment to usher in a new perspective on its function.

I have been awaiting a paradigm shift in foundational physics community for 30 years. It is first when you study sufficiently complex systems, that the problem with existing paradigms gets obvious, ie when the very framework for or "understanding" is wrong. But it may take a century to see.

 

[Same Trick]

Yes, she was key in the ‘war in drugs’ that made all drugs (except alcohol and tobacco… the worst offender) taboo. As a consequence all research on things like psilocybin and other potentially therapeutic drugs was halted. It’s only in recent years that scientific research on psychoactive drugs has recommenced. She was a very stupid woman.

“Just say no!”

 

[Haruhiko]

Researchers found that a single, carefully administered dose of psilocybin can produce rapid and sustained improvements in individuals with severe treatment-resistant depression, offering new hope when traditional therapies have failed.

Single-Dose Psilocybin for Depression With Severe Treatment Resistance: An Open-Label Trial - PubMed

This open-label study suggests efficacy and safety of psilocybin in severe TRD and supports further study of psychedelics in this population, including consideration of PTSD interaction effects.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The participants had tried at least five prior treatments without any improvement. Then, they received one 25-milligram dose of psilocybin alongside psychological support. Just three weeks after treatment, the changes were hard to deny. Nearly 70 percent of participants experienced a signification reduction in their symptoms, and 42 percent achieved complete remission.

The results indicated that the benefits lasted up to 3 months, suggesting one treatment could have long-term benefits. The treatment was well-tolerated with no serious adverse effects reported, underscoring its potential as a safe alternative for people with limited options.

A friend of mine is about to start Psilocybin treatment for his depression. It's extraordinarily expensive and experimental. There are so many waivers you have to sign, and there needs to be two treating physicians at all times throughout the treatment. It's a compound related to dimethyltryptamine (DMT), which we create and release naturally as we dream. But conscious dream-states and hallucinating under supervision are poorly researched these days...

It's legitimate, yes. But there's a chance to slip into psychosis. Like, no way home psychosis.

It should be recognised as a last resort, like disulfiram is for alcoholics.

 

[Haruhiko]

Homeopathy is total bunkum…it’s a scam.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=homeopathic+a+and+e

You might not say that if you had intractable depression.

Another friend of mine's dad was a nationally recognised homeopath. I remember when I was a kid playing at his house, his father would often pull me aside and drop a few drops of whatever either on or under my tongue if I mentioned anything remotely related to feeling a certain way.

To be fair he knew a ridiculous amount about herbal treatments, plant names, and the human condition. He really was quite intelligent. But yes the remedies are so diluted to the point of practically not being in the solution.

 

[Haruhiko]

Nancy Reagan?! I remember reading that she used to eat two bananas before bedtime cause it made her sleep well….

For some reason this info has stuck??

I don't know the story but bananas contain magnesium, potassium and some other thing which all work in conjunction to promote muscle relaxation and melatonin release.

 

[Gyakuto]

Another friend of mine's dad was a nationally recognised homeopath. I remember when I was a kid playing at his house, his father would often pull me aside and drop a few drops of whatever either on or under my tongue if I mentioned anything remotely related to feeling a certain way.

To be fair he knew a ridiculous amount about herbal treatments, plant names, and the human condition. He really was quite intelligent. But yes the remedies are so diluted to the point of practically not being in the solution.

My PhD superbisor’s boss was ‘Regis Professor of Physiology’ (appoint by the queen) Professor Ian Boyd and his father set up the first homeopathic hospital in Scotland. Prof Boyd set up an institute to investigate homeopathy and a large team of scientists, technicians and PhD students did so for 15 years. They found absolutely no effect at all and Boyd’s foray into alternative medicine probably cost him his Fellowship to the Royal Society (FRS).