crying dragon

[Flying Crane]

So, if I see someone on Youtube who I think is demonstrating some really stupid stuff, or if someone opens a school down the street from where I live and I think he sucks, I can post it here in Horror Stories and we can all laugh and point fingers and make fun? And that's OK, as long as I don't call him a fraud?

Can I still do that if the person is another member here on Martialtalk?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This is decided on a Case by Case basis. In the case of Calkins, he was a member here who basically outted himself by his postings. His own photos showcase unsafe practices, and his videos show what they show. As long as the commentary is limited to a professional level (ie critiquing his art and practices) it should be acceptable. Commenting on him personally is not. You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok, but don't comment on his appearance or weight.

Preference is given to cases where you have had some direct or personal contact with the person.

If they are a member of MartialTalk, you can comment as long as it's professional, and understand that they are under no obligation to respond to you.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mod Note:
Have removed several hotlinked images from thread.

 

[Ken Morgan]

You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok,

It's much more then dangerous.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is decided on a Case by Case basis. In the case of Calkins, he was a member here who basically outted himself by his postings. His own photos showcase unsafe practices, and his videos show what they show. As long as the commentary is limited to a professional level (ie critiquing his art and practices) it should be acceptable. Commenting on him personally is not. You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok, but don't comment on his appearance or weight.

Preference is given to cases where you have had some direct or personal contact with the person.

If they are a member of MartialTalk, you can comment as long as it's professional, and understand that they are under no obligation to respond to you.

OK. Well, in perusing this thread it seems to me that quite a lot of postings go well outside the realm of professional critique.

What we've got here is sort of a running critique of the life and screwups of a man who is no longer here to even defend himself, well seasoned with ridicule, personal jibes and sarcasm.

Again, I'm not defending this guy. But I just find it really weird, and outside the scope of what I've always understood Martialtalk to stand for.

Hell, I'm always up for dishing some ridicule on people who suck or are stupid, or both. I've got a list of people I'd like to let loose on, but I want to make sure I'm making fun of the RIGHT people, and not the WRONG people so I have the support of the masses behind me.

I dunno. When I ask my sifu about someone, he always just says, "well, he's OK..." That's sort of his polite codeword for saying "he sucks", but he won't say it in public, and he just leaves it at that. I don't understand why we have an ongoing thread dedicated to this guy.

whatever. I don't mean to spoil the fun for everyone, so feel free to ignore me.

 

[jks9199]

Tell you what, folks. A discussion of what is and isn't fraudbusting is kind of topic here. I'm going to start a thread in the MartialTalk Site Support Forum where we can maybe hash this out a little better without cluttering a thread.

Quick answer is that there is room to discuss people's qualifications, or lack thereof, so long as it's done in a polite way, and so long as the understanding is that the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and that MT members or staff aren't going to go out and conduct investigations into people's claims. If anything reaches a point that investigation is necessary, it'll be turned over to the proper authorities.

 

[Flying Crane]

Tell you what, folks. A discussion of what is and isn't fraudbusting is kind of topic here. I'm going to start a thread in the MartialTalk Site Support Forum where we can maybe hash this out a little better without cluttering a thread.

Quick answer is that there is room to discuss people's qualifications, or lack thereof, so long as it's done in a polite way, and so long as the understanding is that the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and that MT members or staff aren't going to go out and conduct investigations into people's claims. If anything reaches a point that investigation is necessary, it'll be turned over to the proper authorities.

Actually, now that I've looked more closely I don't think fraudbusting is the issue here.

I think the issue is targeting someone for ongoing riducule, so we can all have a scapegoat at which to point and laugh. The ridicule may be well deserved, but the guy isn't even around here anymore to provoke it nor defend against it.

It may be technically within the rules of the site, but I think it's really sort of bad form and doesn't help anybody to look any better.

What is it? Do we all feel better about our own shortcomings when we've got someone else to point at and say, "well at least I don't suck as much and I'm not as stupid as THAT guy"?

It just all seems very sophomoric. A sort of schoolyard sort of mean, that I would not expect from adults.

 

[jks9199]

Actually, now that I've looked more closely I don't think fraudbusting is the issue here.

I think the issue is targeting someone for ongoing riducule, so we can all have a scapegoat at which to point and laugh. The ridicule may be well deserved, but the guy isn't even around here anymore to provoke it nor defend against it.

It may be technically within the rules of the site, but I think it's really sort of bad form and doesn't help anybody to look any better.

What is it? Do we all feel better about our own shortcomings when we've got someone else to point at and say, "well at least I don't suck as much and I'm not as stupid as THAT guy"?

It just all seems very sophomoric. A sort of schoolyard sort of mean, that I would not expect from adults.

I don't completely disagree, hence my very limited posting in this thread! And that's the easy solution... If you think it's in bad form or poor taste... don't participate! But I do believe, as I understand the history of this guy, he rather brought it on himself... and continues to do so!

 

[Flying Crane]

IBut I do believe, as I understand the history of this guy, he rather brought it on himself... and continues to do so!

I guess that would have me ask: why are the members of this site so interested in him? He's no longer part of this community. He may well be a buffoon, but why does it matter to the members of this community?

This question isn't directed at you personally. It's just my thoughts on the situation.

Buffoons and loosers abound in the martial arts. Like they all get syphoned off from every other dreg, and dumped on the doorstep of every dojo in town. So why is this guy enough of a concern to keep a commentary going on his life? I suppose because he was here, so people know him on somewhat of a personal level.

But lot's of people like that have come and gone. Why not start a thread on Monkey? Remember him? Annoying little bugger, but he finally went away and nobody cares.

It's not like I care one way or the other about this guy. I just think that an ongoing riducule on a public forum like this is bad form. We've all met people along the way who we trashtalk. Like I said, loosers and martial arts go hand-in-hand. But I think that kind of thing ought to be kept sort of private, amonst those you know and trust well. I don't see a need to be putting it on the internet for the world to see. It's low class.

 

[teekin]

Well Michael, the degree to which he takes himself as serious or tries to pass himself off as serious/skillful/a master is kinda like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The problem is he taking others along with him. He is going to wreck the Whole Damn Martial Experiance for way too many people. It will sour them so they think all MAists are like Soke Calkins and they will miss out on the whole big bright wonderful world of Trad MA and MMA. Bruce doesn't give a good God Damn about anybody but Bruce and for that reason but more so the poor souls he catchs up in his psudo-dojo I have NO problem heaping scorn and riddicule on the little milk-sop. He wears a Gold belt, Gold for God's sake. . . . he invented his own belt . . . . . to symbolise his humility. And you don't think that's funny?:barf:

Come on now, this guy needs to go meet Steve Scott :yoda:for a few years and learn the error of his ways.
lori

 

[Flying Crane]

Well Michael, the degree to which he takes himself as serious or tries to pass himself off as serious/skillful/a master is kinda like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The problem is he taking others along with him. He is going to wreck the Whole Damn Martial Experiance for way too many people. It will sour them so they think all MAists are like Soke Calkins and they will miss out on the whole big bright wonderful world of Trad MA and MMA. Bruce doesn't give a good God Damn about anybody but Bruce and for that reason but more so the poor souls he catchs up in his psudo-dojo I have NO problem heaping scorn and riddicule on the little milk-sop. He wears a Gold belt, Gold for God's sake. . . . he invented his own belt . . . . . to symbolise his humility. And you don't think that's funny?:barf:

Come on now, this guy needs to go meet Steve Scott :yoda:for a few years and learn the error of his ways.
lori

he's far far far from the only one doing this. again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it. Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?

Do you keep tabs on all the losers you went to high school with, and list all their failures on your Facebook page or something? I left those bad memories in the past, and I don't care what those people are doing today. Why do you continue to care about this guy? Do you have a personal vendetta against him?

 

[grydth]

he's far far far from the only one doing this. again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it. Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?

Do you keep tabs on all the losers you went to high school with, and list all their failures on your Facebook page or something? I left those bad memories in the past, and I don't care what those people are doing today. Why do you continue to care about this guy? Do you have a personal vendetta against him?

You've been back several times yourself now, taking some shots at us via some 'questions', plus some unflattering speculations which you are not qualified to make. One point is that our behavior is "low class" because el Grando Soke isn't here to defend himself.

Have you ever seen any of us back away from a contest with anyone who is here? I've disagreed with entire threads before, so please save the musings about those who only criticize 'the right people'.

Now, the Soke's latest antic has been playing cutting games featuring weapons, food items and students. He cheerfully posts these atrocities on the Internet for profit. Tell me, what conceivable defense could there be for that type of behavior? The fact that he is not here is absolutely irrelevant, for the conduct is indefensible on its face.

Yeah, MA is overrun with frauds and fakers. As has been noted many times before, these charlatans often prosper greatly while true masters scrounge for rent money. So we finally get a buffoon who's comically inept and we have a few laughs...... I'm not sorry. Not at all.

 

[teekin]

"Qui tacet consentiret" (Silence Implies Consent ) SirThomasMore

and I most certainly Do Not Consent.

lori

but your point is understood and valid to boot. I *am* being small, mean and petty. It is beneath me, but I will continue to call em as I see em. I am Damn! Damn! lucky to have run into the instuctors I did and very lucky Andrew puts up with me. I don't even want to think of the mess I'd be in if I had met a Soke Calkins before Drew.

 

[Stuey]

he's far far far from the only one doing this. again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it. Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?quote]
I think that we should all hear of these types of stories and our feelings about them aired, albeit in a more proffessional manner. There is nothing worse than the embarrassment of leaving a McDojo or a glorified video game club after you have already joined. And people do join and get suckered in. People should be made aware of these situations. If they then ignore the apparent danger and advice against it then these people will have themselves to blame for the situation they are in. It should be apparent to all, however, some still get caught up in it. They should be allowed the opportunity to see it for what it really is. (or at least what we percieve it to be)

 

[Flying Crane]

You've been back several times yourself now, taking some shots at us via some 'questions', plus some unflattering speculations which you are not qualified to make. One point is that our behavior is "low class" because el Grando Soke isn't here to defend himself.

I'm not "taking shots" at you, but I am pointing out that the nature of this thread ought to be beneath you all. And, I am commenting on behavior here conducted by people who are still here to provoke my comments, and respond to my comments as seems appropriate. If you had left MT altogether, and I set up a thread dedicated to the continued discussion of how much of a loser you are (I don't feel that way about you, I'm just making an example), I think most people here would see it as lacking in class and unnecessary.

Leave the gradeschool playground nonsense back in gradeschool.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think that we should all hear of these types of stories and our feelings about them aired, albeit in a more proffessional manner. There is nothing worse than the embarrassment of leaving a McDojo or a glorified video game club after you have already joined. And people do join and get suckered in. People should be made aware of these situations. If they then ignore the apparent danger and advice against it then these people will have themselves to blame for the situation they are in. It should be apparent to all, however, some still get caught up in it. They should be allowed the opportunity to see it for what it really is. (or at least what we percieve it to be)

you want to save the world from the charlatans? Good luck to you. You can't even scratch the surface. I know they do damage out there, but so do so many others in all lines of questionable business enterprise. You can't stamp it out. There are way way too many of them, Mr. Calkins hardly has the monopoly on it.

Maybe we should start a new thread, where we can all list all the losers we've ever come across in the Martial Arts. We can just trashtalk everyone we want to, and maybe our efforts will shame them all into submission.

I doubt it.

 

[Stuey]

you want to save the world from the charlatans? Good luck to you. You can't even scratch the surface. I know they do damage out there, but so do so many others in all lines of questionable business enterprise. You can't stamp it out. There are way way too many of them, Mr. Calkins hardly has the monopoly on it.

Maybe we should start a new thread, where we can all list all the losers we've ever come across in the Martial Arts. We can just trashtalk everyone we want to, and maybe our efforts will shame them all into submission.

I doubt it.

As you state, stamping it out is impossible. People are free to make up their own mind, and will often go against what others think. I dont want to ridicule anyone, I just want the opportunity to know who ridicules themselves and be given the opportunity not to put myself in the same box. I can see the attitude of which you speak in others replies and it is not something I endorse. I think that is wrong. On the other hand, All of the charlatans out there should be pointed out. Named and shamed. Is silence not consent as someone else said? In this case the guy is clearly worthy of ridicule, but he does that all by himself. He doesnt need my help. But it is good to know what others think is silly or wrong or whatever. In the end, if I get caught up in all that despite people telling me they think it is wrong then I am responsible for what becomes. If I like what he teaches I will go ahead and do it anyways. But people who dont know the first thing about anything will just get ripped off and put themselves in danger. Shouldnt these people be given the opportunity to know he is a charlatan? I guss it then comes back down to some people treating MA's like religion, i.e. mine is the one and only, all others are wrong and inferior, etc. Thats when one has to use ones own judgment. Peace bro

 

[Flying Crane]

good luck to ya with it.

i think I've made my position clear here, and I won't be the killjoy in this thread anymore. People wanna have someone to point fingers at and laugh, well, be my guest.

Someday people might point fingers and laugh at them too. As you sow, so you shall reap.

have fun, schoolchildren.

 

[grydth]

I'm not "taking shots" at you, but I am pointing out that the nature of this thread ought to be beneath you all. And, I am commenting on behavior here conducted by people who are still here to provoke my comments, and respond to my comments as seems appropriate. If you had left MT altogether, and I set up a thread dedicated to the continued discussion of how much of a loser you are (I don't feel that way about you, I'm just making an example), I think most people here would see it as lacking in class and unnecessary.

Leave the gradeschool playground nonsense back in gradeschool.

For what it's worth, I find you a highly respectable MT member as well. So let's just make this an 'agree to disagree' among gentlemen.

I did have a thread started about me on a Forum I wasn't on once, and it brought me gales of laughter for some time.... long story which isn't relevant on its facts here.

Anyway, if there were any conceivable excuse or defense for actions the Soke has engaged in with the sword, I might tend to agree with you. But he is so far over the line that, even were he present, there is no defense imaginable which could be presented. Also, if he is using the Internet to promote these disgusting acts and profit therefrom, I do not feel it inappropriate to use the Internet to give them the derision that they merit.

 

[celtic_crippler]

You're both right.

Negative begets negative...so we should be careful in our actions (written or otherwise.)

However, there are exceptions to everything...and I think this is one.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this fellow is a danger to the public? It's almost criminal NOT to say something about it, perhaps in hopes that someone may do their homework on the guy and find this thread and avoid getting an appendage cut off!

It's one thing to debate the strengths and weaknesses of different styles, organizations, or schools.... it's completely another to remain silent when you recognize an obvious fake is endangering the lives of those too ingnorant to know better.

Beyond the obvious dangers, he's instilling false confidence in his students and when the day comes that they may have to rely on the ....skills.... he has taught them... it will be a very rude awakening for the student. I just hope they survive the encounter in good enough shape to learn from it.

If his desire to teach is so great, then he should take the time to learn.