Court Declines to Review Abortion Law

[loki09789]

But in this case, it is time-sensitive, but may not be considered "pressing medical need" if the girl's wishes, apart from her parents', are considered to be invalid. If she cannot OK an abortion for herself without their approval, a doctor may decide that she will be just fine as a young mother - since this is such an emotional issue.

I would think that the doctor would explain his decision as legal compliance and the parental consent issue and not his judgement of who is going to be fine as a mother.

Here is a wrench in the cogs of the discussion: Most abortions are within the first trimester (i believe) what are realistic options for a girl that hides a pregnancy beyond that trimester, with or without parental invovlement: Adoption, raising it, ... is there still abortive options if she or the parents decide it is what they want?

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Well, just logistically speaking, it is very hard for a woman who wants an abortion in the 2nd trimester to *find* one - few places offer it, because of local political pressures. Usually one has to go to a large metropoolitan area, which is not always possible financially, esp. for younng girls.

So, legally, she should be able to obtain a second-trimester abortion, but logistically speaking, it is very difficult - she'd probably have to have parents or other adult help to get to the clinic or hospital for the procedure.

Example: A friend of mine here in town was approached by a couple of international students - one of them was pregnant, had wanted to keep the baby initially (hoped things would work out with boyfriend), but that went *very badly*, she had no $, basically, and chose to have an abortion. She ended up having to rent a car and drive 6-7 hours, into another state, to find a hospital that would perform the procedure, because she was just over the line into the second trimester.

 

[Shaolinwind]

I am truly sorry you grew up in a home with a seriously psychiatrically ill woman.
Munchausen's by proxy is an illness, and has no relationship to Christianity.Your mother could just have well been a fanatical Muslim and she still would have had her illness.

Your reality may demand governmental intervention, but not mine.
You argue that because some children have bad parents, all children should be entitled to made medical decisions.
My analogy is this (and others have made it): Because some parents don't lock up their gun cabinets, no parent should be allowed to have guns in the house in case a child decides to go on a shooting spree. Because some parents don't monitor their child's internet usage, no household with kids are allowed internet access.

I don't follow the logic here.

Peace,
Melissa

That's only a part of the reasoning, not the only reasoning and certainly not invalid reasoning.

Here's another expample of my "keep your hands of your kids bodies" opinions. There are people who don't believe in going to the hospital at all. So do you think they should be allowed to keep their kids from medical treatment if they need to get their tonsils taken out? No. There are LAWS against that. It's a small group of sickos and there is legislation to deal with them.

The general sentiment here seems to be that since there is a supposedly small percentage of children who need protection from fanatically religeous, abusive, or plain crazy parents, they simply aren't entitled to protection.

Furthermore, since the child is already having pre-marital sex it's obvious they haven't been guided properly, haven't been taught how to make appropriate life choices, and are largely unsupervised. So I question the integrity and parenting skills of the parents of a pregnant daughter. They are already falling down on the job, and now they want to curse their child with an albatross around their neck?

Let's turn it around.. Under what circumstances do you think a child should be forced to give birth? What really makes you think children under 18 shouldn't be intelligent enough to choose to abort? And yes, if they choose to abort that would be intelligence. Children are extremely susceptable to the effects of hormones. As you know when you get pregnant maternal hormones kick in and instincts make most people want to keep their baby. To decide to abort is a very lucid decision.

I would like to mention that though young people are able to get pregnant, they aren't necessarily ready to give birth? Girls still in the early stages of puberty have very difficult and dangerous labors. A parent that would have their daughter endure such risk is deranged.

Let's not forget that congress agrees with me.

I don't think anyone can give 1 good answer as to why a child should be forced to give birth. And if you think "you make your bed you sleep in it" then you are who I believe they need to be protected from.

 

[Tgace]

I dont believe anybody is saying the "small percentage" isnt worthy of protection. What some of us are saying is that you make exceptions or provide alternatives for the "small percentage" you dont make policy for them.

And while congress does agree with you, remember that the majority of states do indeed require at least one parents permission or a judicial override.

 

[Cryozombie]

1. I just LOVE intellectual discussion, from people who in no way adopt both the ideas and the tone of Savage et al. Why, they're independent thinkers--it's just a complete, utter accident that they a) distort what they read, b) force everything into liberal evil thoughts from Satan vs. Decency and Conservatism, c) so frequently fall back on insult because they haven't got the goods to argue with, d) try to claim that their position is neutral, unbiased, common sense under attack. Good thing this never, ever happens on Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage et al...

For the record, Frasier, you can compare me with those people all you want, but 1) I dont have ANY clue who Savage is, 2)I have in the past stated what a moron Rush is, and 3) while I am aware of who Hannity is, Ive never listened to him speak. So if my Ideas are "just like theirs" I dunno what to tell you... Maybe you just like to keep parroting the war cry "you sound like blah blah" because you have no idea what you are actually talking about.

2. Points that keep getting sluffed off: a) the whole court case is part of an explicit, deliberate attack on abortion rights in general, using "protecting kids," as an excuse; b) these are the clowns who've been attacking women's clinics, sex ed programs, services for women and kids (including Head Start) for two decades now; c) this is one more case of men wanting to use State power to keep control of, "their," women; d) the amount of heat this has generated underscores that point.

Points that keep getting Sluffed off:

Parents are responsible for thier minor children. Period. Can you honestly argue they are not, without sounding any dumber?

3. Oh. Nobody said nobody else didn't read books. I said the books you're reading aren't very good

Do us a favor, Fraiser... make us a list of approved reading material. We can burn the rest, since you seem to know what reading material is best for us.

 

[Tgace]

I really feel, if we are going to decide that a child has the right to decide what to do with their body... it should be an all or nothing proposal. Drop the laws regulating Drinking and Smoking ages, Drop the laws regarding drug use, drop the laws against Child Pornography, Drop the Statutory rape laws, drop the laws reglating the age for Tattooing and Body piercing...

Good point. My issue too has been the lack of consistancy. Due IMO more to the whole "political atmosphere" surrounding abortion (if you disagree with any abortion issue you must be "pro-life" thing..) than any consistant legal precedent regarding the parent/child relationship.

 

[Melissa426]

Furthermore, since the child is already having pre-marital sex it's obvious they haven't been guided properly, haven't been taught how to make appropriate life choices, and are largely unsupervised. So I question the integrity and parenting skills of the parents of a pregnant daughter.

Let's turn it around.. Under what circumstances do you think a child should be forced to give birth? What really makes you think children under 18 shouldn't be intelligent enough to choose to abort? And yes, if they choose to abort that would be intelligence. To decide to abort is a very lucid decision.

Girls still in the early stages of puberty have very difficult and dangerous labors. A parent that would have their daughter endure such risk is deranged.

Let's not forget that congress agrees with me.

I don't think anyone can give 1 good answer as to why a child should be forced to give birth. And if you think "you make your bed you sleep in it" then you are who I believe they need to be protected from.

a. If your child has pre-marital sex, it does not necessarily make you a bad parent. Unless, however, you consider 50-70% of the parents of high school seniors to be "bad" parents, cause that is what percentage of those children are or have been sexually active. Who are we to judge unless you know those families personally .

b. "my boyfriend will break up with me if I don't have an abortion"
" I don't want to get fat."
" I'll get kicked off the cheerleading squad."
....wonderful, lucid, intelligent reasons that a 15 y.o. might have for getting an abortion.
Suppose she says "I want an abortion because I was raped by the man next door, but I don't want to tell anyone cause he said if I did, he would kill me. " Is your answer, go ahead, give her the abortion, but don't tell her parents? Let her continue to live next door to the man who assaulted her? I know this may seem far-fetched, but these are real scenarios.

c. Deranged? You have got to be kidding. So If a 13 y.o. decides NOT to have an abortion, her parents ought to make her, otherwise they would be deranged? By the way, I work in healthcare, have personally taken care of pregnant 12 - 14 y.o.s, and they have had normal pregnancies and deliveries.

d. No one is saying a child should be forced to give birth. We are saying that parents ought to have a say so in the decision to have an abortion, cause that is what good parents should do, be responsible the well being of their children.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. Ooooh! "Frasier!" That was just a....a...good one! And one that in no way borrows from mass media.

2. Hey, wait a minute.

3. I don't suppose that it's occured to a couple of you guys that turning everything into belligerent attacks on other GUYS is more than a little symptomatic on a thread discussing whether or not the law should be stepping into sex, reproduction and GIRLS?

4. Sorry to tick you off, Melissa. Genuinely.

5. Among the "irrelevant," issues that some try to suppress: a) why the government should be stepping in to decide on sex, pregnancy and abortion at all; b) why nobody seems interested in pushing law at boys, let alone the large number of men over 18 who are responsible for underage pregnancies; c) why we can only have laws that intrude into women's bodies, but never, somehow, into men's; d) why it doesn't seem to matter that the guys pushing this issue in the media are explicit in saying that they're only doing this to get rid of Roe v. Wade altogether; e) why there's no problem with a President who's a loudmouth on, say, abortion, but silent about violence against women, and eager to spend 1 trillion on a tax cut for his buddies, 2 trillion plus for the, "Future Army," jesus knows what on Star Wars III--but oh my god, we gotta cut Head Start and every other program for women and kids because There's A Budget Crisis.

6. The fundamental justification for objecting to underage abortion remains a religious one: some people believe that human life begins at contraception, when the soul enters into the dividing egg. Otherwise, who cares?

7. This is STILL really all about men panicking over control of the wimmins.

 

[Flatlander]

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[shesulsa]

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