Cost of a black belt grading

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Michael Billings

I would never not test someone because they could not pay the fee. I would manage it somehow so their time was donated to a task needing doing that is not a regular part of the school upkeep.

-Michael

OK, put it this way:

At Christmas, my instructor gave himself a double hernia whilst barrowing some rubble into a skip, pop pop, and was out of the game for 2 months. During that time, I ran the club along with the three other people who are supposed to be grading, and also the one black belt we currently have.

Eventually, in late February, our instructor came back; but only for a few weeks. I kept getting phone calls saying things like "Can you take the class tonight Ian? I'm busy fitting a kitchen." or similar - he's a builder. At the start of March, he waited until everyone had left the training hall and asked if me and Dave (the black belt) stay behind. He confessed that being out of work with his injury had left him in some debt, and that he was trying to set up his own building business so he could make some money to pay it off. But he said there was no way that he could run the Kenpo club and this new business at the same time, until it was set up. He said there was basically three options: firstly, the club could simply close, secondly, the club could continue with us running it, and he'd try to pay us, or thirdly, the club could continue with us running it, and we'd have to do it volountarily.

We chose the third option unanimously, and so at the moment, me and the two other highest belts are running the entire club (teaching, equipment, accounts, transport....everything) free of charge, out of the kindness of our own hearts, which is why I've been doing so much teaching lately. This is goining to continue for (supposedly) 18 months, until our instructor comes back.

Now, if anyone can think of a better alternative way to pay for a black belt grading than with cash than that, I'd love to hear it....

Having said that, I received an e-mail last night suggesting that the club might have to shut down soon anyway, because a lot of people are thinking of leaving (presumably because they're not happy now that the instructor's gone). So I might never get to do my black belt anyway.

Ian.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by satans.barber
OK, put it this way:

At Christmas, my instructor gave himself a double hernia whilst barrowing some rubble into a skip, pop pop, and was out of the game for 2 months. During that time, I ran the club along with the three other people who are supposed to be grading, and also the one black belt we currently have.

Eventually, in late February, our instructor came back; but only for a few weeks. I kept getting phone calls saying things like "Can you take the class tonight Ian? I'm busy fitting a kitchen." or similar - he's a builder. At the start of March, he waited until everyone had left the training hall and asked if me and Dave (the black belt) stay behind. He confessed that being out of work with his injury had left him in some debt, and that he was trying to set up his own building business so he could make some money to pay it off. But he said there was no way that he could run the Kenpo club and this new business at the same time, until it was set up. He said there was basically three options: firstly, the club could simply close, secondly, the club could continue with us running it, and he'd try to pay us, or thirdly, the club could continue with us running it, and we'd have to do it volountarily.

We chose the third option unanimously, and so at the moment, me and the two other highest belts are running the entire club (teaching, equipment, accounts, transport....everything) free of charge, out of the kindness of our own hearts, which is why I've been doing so much teaching lately. This is goining to continue for (supposedly) 18 months, until our instructor comes back.

Now, if anyone can think of a better alternative way to pay for a black belt grading than with cash than that, I'd love to hear it....

Having said that, I received an e-mail last night suggesting that the club might have to shut down soon anyway, because a lot of people are thinking of leaving (presumably because they're not happy now that the instructor's gone). So I might never get to do my black belt anyway.

Ian.

For what it's worth, you're already a Black belt in my book.:asian:

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Doc
For what it's worth, you're already a Black belt in my book.:asian:

I have to second that Ian.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Well ya can't beat that endorsement!!!!

You should contact this guy one last time .. tell him since the club
is closing, that he should mail you and the other 2 your b.b. certs.
Screw the test!

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Doc
For what it's worth, you're already a Black belt in my book.:asian:

That means a lot to me, thankyou (to Mr. Farmer also)!

Ian.

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
especially since I do not live in the Kenpo-mecca California.

count your blessings my friend...you should try living on the east coast.

you texas folk always seem to have plenty of kenpo activity going on, and quality activity at that.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Doc
Kenpo mecca? Where? The grass is always greener ..... From what I hear, Texas is doing just fine.

No argument there, but if I lived in "So Cal" I could potentially in
one day have a private with you, Mr Trejo, Mr Hawkins,
Mr Tatum, Mr O'Brient, Mr Kongaika, Mr Sepulveda, Mr Leroux,
Mr Sullivan, etc. Can't do that here!! Plus there's the historic
Pasadena Studio, "where it all started".

In the east there's Mr Palanzo (sp?), Mr Kelly, Mr Rebello, Mr
Hibben, that I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Mr
Whitson.

In Texas, I think Mr Duffy actually trained with Mr Parker, but not
as long as the aforementioned ones. I think the closest to
Austin would be a nice 15 hour drive to Mr Kelly's school. Huk
lives in Loiusianna, but he doesn't have a school. That's all that
I'm aware of! I know other states have it worse .. but we don't
have it like California!

 

[Disco]

Gentlemen and Ladies, I have a suggestion. Since this is dealing with Kenpo, can't someone on this board/listing of higher ranking than first Dan afford the promotion to first dan for him? I know that being in another country makes it somewhat of a problem and nobody has actually trained or taught him, but you could set up a plan for a video tape testing. The concenses seems to be that many consider him at Black Belt status allready. Would hate to see a good martial artist and his school fold because of lack of help. Surely somebody or a group of kenpoists from here can find some way to help. Just a thought..........
:asian:

 

[pineapple head]

It would be cheaper to train with us Ian....

 

[Robbo]

You should contact this guy one last time .. tell him since the club is closing, that he should mail you and the other 2 your b.b. certs.

I would look into this, if he trusts you enough to run the club and you are ready to test it would be a formality anyway. It would be shame to come this far and not get the piece of paper. I would think that he would owe you that at least considering the extenuating circumstances and all.

Rob

 

[Michael Billings]

...that causes enrollment to suffer? Or is it some other factor such as the economy, expertise with people, comfort in the Art, sales skills, retention principles, etc.?

Just because someone gets a Black Belt does not mean they can run a school. No insult intended at all. But if you try to diagnose a problem and decide the remedy is to promote someone to Black, I have to question the effectiveness of the remedy. It is a good way for a system to franchise and grow. Look at the boom in the '60's here in the States, with Mr. Parker following the Alvin Ailey "studio" model, both Tracy and Traco Kenpo franchising out. Promotions to be used in front of the public, while you work as fast as you can learning the next material you have to teach, as well as how to be a businessman. Whew!!! Lots on your plate!

Ian well may deserve, and should get a Black, but how will that fix the school? Maybe it is that perceived lack of leadership at the top and it would fix it, but you should be certain of that. If there is anything I personally can do to help, I would be more than happy to. Unfortunatley what works in the US may not work in the UK. There are different norms, expectations, and business practices.

How else can we as a collective group help you out? It sure seems like you are not lacking in support on this forum. All of us instructors have been through rough spots, and if we can help, we would be glad to.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
...that causes enrollment to suffer? Or is it some other factor such as the economy, expertise with people, comfort in the Art, sales skills, retention principles, etc.?

Just because someone gets a Black Belt does not mean they can run a school. No insult intended at all. But if you try to diagnose a problem and decide the remedy is to promote someone to Black, I have to question the effectiveness of the remedy. It is a good way for a system to franchise and grow. Look at the boom in the '60's here in the States, with Mr. Parker following the Alvin Ailey "studio" model, both Tracy and Traco Kenpo franchising out. Promotions to be used in front of the public, while you work as fast as you can learning the next material you have to teach, as well as how to be a businessman. Whew!!! Lots on your plate!

Ian well may deserve, and should get a Black, but how will that fix the school? Maybe it is that perceived lack of leadership at the top and it would fix it, but you should be certain of that. If there is anything I personally can do to help, I would be more than happy to. Unfortunatley what works in the US may not work in the UK. There are different norms, expectations, and business practices.

How else can we as a collective group help you out? It sure seems like you are not lacking in support on this forum. All of us instructors have been through rough spots, and if we can help, we would be glad to.

Oss,
-Michael

Kind of true, but a martial arts school without a Black Belt is much like a gold fish bowl with no gold fish... Or mayhap with no bowl?
The fish, like the school would not stand much of a chance, no matter any other factors.

 

[Robbo]

Having a BB has a certain amount of mystique to it from the public's point of view (although we know different). If Ian was to continue with the club then I would think a BB would a pre-requisite. It's not like he's a green belt getting promoted up to Black. He's ready to be tested. If his instructor won't promote him or hold a BB test then he loses out on valuble credentials that he needs to run a school.

Rob

 

[Michael Billings]

Lots of Brown Belts have run schools, I had one personally who ran a successful school in Midland, Texas for years prior to getting his Black. He was very comfortable with his skills and maturity in the Art.

A black belt can be a "Sales" point, but it is not sufficient unto itself ... that is a little naive to believe that would "fix" everything. We have all seen too many schools get shut down over the years.

I think I was trying to offer more, collectively as a group. And maybe I mis-spoke in offerring more from the group and should have just spoken for myself. Therefore, Ian, If I personally can help in any way, business-wise, feel free to email or call. I in no way think of myself as a great businessman, but my school has been up and running for a while, and it started as a club in a garage, then a gym, now a small business.

Maybe someone out there wants to promote him, I have no problem with that, but I also would like to give him the tools he needs to run a successful school/club also. I also don't want to take anything away from his instructor, who could promote him post facto if he so desired. Did Ian ask someone to promote him? This seems a bit presumptuous on our part to assume he would accept it from someone who does not even know him. Geez guys, lighten up, what is most important here? What he wants and states he needs, or what we think he needs.

You have a right to your perceptions and opinions, and I reserve the right to have mine. Neither one is neccessarily right or wrong in every case, and there is a lot of ground left in between.

-Michael

 

[satans.barber]

Hehe, unfortunately, I'm not deserving of an honourary black belt from any of you guys, since I don't know all of your curriculum. The Kempo Ryu curriculum is quite a bit shorter than an EPAK curriculum, so I'm sure that I'm not at an equivalent standard to an EPAK black belt (well, perhaps standard isn't the right word, but I certainly don't know as many techniques etc.). You can see our currciulum on the new, half finished website if anyone's interested: www.kemporyu.co.uk/dev/syllabus.htm .

It is a lovely thought even to be suggested though, and I do thank you!

The running of the school and the black belt grading are not inter-linked, they just happened to have arrived at the same time. However, one is affecting the other, since while ever I'm teaching I'm not getting a whole lot of practice in myself, from a physical point of view, although I am doing a lor of explaining which is helping to cement the principles in my own mind.

We do have one black belt at the school, so I don't think it's a lack of such that's causing problems, just a sudden change I think. Next week I'm going to ask everyone to just tell me what's wrong, I've decided that the simplest and most honest approach. If it's the fact that the instructor's left, there's nothing I can do about it, but anything else I'm sure I can fix - we shall see.

It could just be that a lack of organisation is annoying people, but taking on all the paperwork has been a bigger job that we thought. We are getting on top of it now though, so that might help. Gradings have also become irregular; we used to have them regularly every three months, but we've got one with Wednesday and it's the first once since last September! We've only got 4 juniors and 6 seniors grading though, nobody else seems bothered, so I need to try and work out why.

Anyways, I'll keep you guys posted if you're interested.

Ian.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by satans.barber


Hehe, unfortunately, I'm not deserving of an honourary black belt from any of you guys, since I don't know all of your curriculum. The Kempo Ryu curriculum is quite a bit shorter than an EPAK curriculum, so I'm sure that I'm not at an equivalent standard to an EPAK black belt (well, perhaps standard isn't the right word, but I certainly don't know as many techniques etc.). You can see our currciulum on the new, half finished website if anyone's interested: www.kemporyu.co.uk/dev/syllabus.htm .

It is a lovely thought even to be suggested though, and I do thank you!

Ian.

Yea, the amount of techniques puts you somewhere in our Blue Belt range for your Black.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Yea, the amount of techniques puts you somewhere in our Blue Belt range for your Black.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

In terms of volume, yes, but I think a black belt should be judged on more than just volume of techniques; understanding, commitment, skill etc. are all important as well

Ian.

 

[Sigung86]

I will not even begin to speak for Doc, but only myself.

It is interesting that Doc made, what appeared to be a written compliment to Sat's spirit. At least that is the way I took it. My comment was made in that spirit. I would not venture to put a Black Belt on someone I did not know. Having been in and at the arts since 1963, I believe I have a better grip on it than that.

Mr. Billings. I don't think that I indicated that a Black Belt would fix the problem. All I indicated, in other words, is that if you open a school of ballet, you had better have some ballet slippers.

There are exceptions to every rule. Even I know that. I do not run a commercial school anymore. I wasn't very good as a business man before, as I tended to let the love of teaching the art over rule my business acumen. But given the location and proximity to other martial arts schools in my area, had I opened with less than the rank I have, I would not have lasted nearly as long as I did. For the "most part" a karate school is expected to be run by a Black Belt. That's just sort of the way things go. But, as I said, there are exceptions to every rule. So ...

:asian:

 

[webpage20022003]

the meaning of having a black belt NOWSDAY doesn't mean MUCH

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by webpage20022003
the meaning of having a black belt NOWSDAY doesn't mean MUCH

Brutha! The meaning of the Black Belt is in you, and no one else. If it means that little then you need to not take it. It will never hold any value to you. And will probably prove to be a large disappointment.