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See... I just don't know on this one...
Lemme ask you all somthing:
If that woman had been friends with the girl's family IRL, and then found out the girl was being mean to her daughter, walked next door and confronted her out of anger and said "The world would be a better place without you" and the kid decided to hang herself... would the criminal charges ever have been filed, or are we attacking the "evils of the internet"?
No-it's the craven contrivance of an adult's actions towards a minor that makes it so bad. If it had been one of the girl's peers who set it up-if the woman's daughter had done it on her own, for instance- well, it would be sad, but not necessarily criminal, and we might not even have heard about it. Adults aren't supposed to interact with teens at that level. More importantly, it sounds as though she knew the girl had enough personality problems that she might be setting something like the girl's suicide off, so there's an implied intent, if not proof of actual intent.
agreed
for an adult to go after a child, and PROD them to suicide is criminal
Of course its easy to be angry at what the adult did... But that doesn't answer my question... would charges against the adult have been pursued if the situation had occurred offline?
Trust me, I don't condone the woman's behavior twords the child, but I do question the actions as taken simply because being, wel basically, mean to someone IRL doesn't seem to carry the same type of penalties, and I wonder what makes the net different?
Or perhaps I should rephrase the question:
Should being mean and rude to someone online carry a more significant weight then doing it in real life?
And if it is ok to regulate what amounts to social grace, (i.e being mean or rude becomes a crime) where does regulation end and freedom of thought begin?
That's why I said that this is one of the few times that I think technology has enabled a new sort of crime. This couldn't have happened face-to-face; the girl would have known she wasn't talking to a boy. I don't think it would have had the same effect were it merely passing notes or sending letters, either. There's an immediacy and an intimacy to communicating via text/IM on the internet that's lacking -- while there's still a frightening anonymity, too.Of course its easy to be angry at what the adult did... But that doesn't answer my question... would charges against the adult have been pursued if the situation had occurred offline?
Trust me, I don't condone the woman's behavior twords the child, but I do question the actions as taken simply because being, wel basically, mean to someone IRL doesn't seem to carry the same type of penalties, and I wonder what makes the net different?
See... I just don't know on this one...
Lemme ask you all somthing:
If that woman had been friends with the girl's family IRL, and then found out the girl was being mean to her daughter, walked next door and confronted her out of anger and said "The world would be a better place without you" and the kid decided to hang herself... would the criminal charges ever have been filed, or are we attacking the "evils of the internet"?
Of course its easy to be angry at what the adult did... But that doesn't answer my question... would charges against the adult have been pursued if the situation had occurred offline?
Trust me, I don't condone the woman's behavior twords the child, but I do question the actions as taken simply because being, wel basically, mean to someone IRL doesn't seem to carry the same type of penalties, and I wonder what makes the net different?
Of course its easy to be angry at what the adult did... But that doesn't answer my question... would charges against the adult have been pursued if the situation had occurred offline?
Helluva question. I have an addendum to it. Would this crime or misdeed have been committed without the Internet? It's much easier for the cowardly and creepy to function from behind a keyboard then out in the open.
Helluva question. I have an addendum to it. Would this crime or misdeed have been committed without the Internet? It's much easier for the cowardly and creepy to function from behind a keyboard then out in the open.
Helluva question. I have an addendum to it. Would this crime or misdeed have been committed without the Internet? It's much easier for the cowardly and creepy to function from behind a keyboard then out in the open.
That was my point - it likely wouldn't have been done in public because she's a middle-aged woman and it would be difficult for her to disguise herself as a teenage boy and toy with her. But if she did and worked the girl up into such an emotional state that the girl committed suicide, would she not then be charged with aggravated assault leading to death by way of mental anguish?
It would still have been wrong even if the girl hadn't killed herself. "Let's say that rather than goading her to suicide, the woman had led her on that they were going to go to prom, and she bought a prom dress, etc., spending huge sums of money (as most proms today involve). I don't think anyone would laugh and say it was a good joke; I think most people would be in favor of making the adult pay some sort of fine or restitution."
i wish that were true. Nope - it would be spread over the net - or videoed and posted to Youtube or staged for an episode of Punked.
Visible, shared 'cruelty-for-fun'. needs an audience. gets an audience.
the better organized, staged, believable and outrageous the con, the more popular and more shared... 'you've got to see _this_'. Can you top it?
its a challenge lots of people can't resist. Having an overblown 'reason' for revenge/payback is the cheap justification - when it results in harm the perp can't dismiss or when the 'audience' recoils/creeps out, the perp gets confused but can't feel sorrow or repentance, after all, she/he says they 'didn't intend' the bad outcome. except thats exactly what they intended, they just wanted envy and applause too.
the law struggles to create a commensurate legal response. people can create a 'social' response. Shunning seems good.
maybe adding a quiet comment upon meeting this woman ' what a horrific act you did', said softly, no drama, no grand-standing. i witnessed that done by a person toward an individual under a similar situation. The responder followed by leaving the social occasion where the perp was present, made no scene whatsoever, no self-righteousness. i was young and floored by the older woman's integrity and backbone. I think even (*or especially) Miss Manners would approve.
we aren't helpless when we refuse to be the compliant audience for cruelty.
it was a dirty, disgusting thing that she did. however i'm not sure that she broke the law. in any case, she will have to live with what she's done & the social stigma will follow her always. [...]
it will be interesting to see what legal precedents this case sets.
I agree, it will be difficult to charge her with anything, but she should be tortured for long painful periods of time.it was a dirty, disgusting thing that she did. however i'm not sure that she broke the law. in any case, she will have to live with what she's done & the social stigma will follow her always. karm is a *****.
it will be interesting to see what legal precedents this case sets.
jf
Is lying about one’s identity on the Internet now a crime?
The verdict Wednesday in the MySpace cyberbullying case raised a variety of questions about the terms that users agree to when they log on to Web sites.
If you created a clever disguise for yourself - pretended to be a completely different gender, age with a completely different intention ... and prodded someone into self-destruction WITH THAT BEING YOUR SOLE INTENT FROM THE START ... what would you call yourself?
The adult woman did not go over to that girl's home as herself, she did not represent herself with honorable intentions - she deliberately disguised herself, befriended, seduced and ultimately bullied and destroyed that girl and it was her intention to do so from the very beginning.
That's why I said that this is one of the few times that I think technology has enabled a new sort of crime. This couldn't have happened face-to-face; the girl would have known she wasn't talking to a boy. I don't think it would have had the same effect were it merely passing notes or sending letters, either. There's an immediacy and an intimacy to communicating via text/IM on the internet that's lacking -- while there's still a frightening anonymity, too.