Conform to My Style or Else!

[Tez3]

Do you believe in your system? Do you believe that it is sound and it works?

He came to you to learn from you. Teach him YOUR system.

If he wants to do it "boxing" style, if that works better for him, then he can go train in a boxing gym. Why then train with you?

He may not want to do it boxing style but if he's been boxing for a long while it will be instinctive and not a reflection of how he feels about TKD.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Well, not really in my case, but the thread title was meant to be provocative.

I have a new adult student who has been training with us with 3 classes now. He catches on quickly, as he's trained before in boxing and wrestling. Obviously he has well developed punches, albeit of the boxing type. He tends to rise up on his toes on most of the punches and he also leans into the blows. Which is fine to me. I studied Jhoon Rhee TKD which had quite a bit of boxing influence itself.

His personal style seems to bother the other instructors a bit however. And I noticed they're trying to straighten his back and eliminate the lean when he is learning/practicing Chon-Ji, the first hyung. My inclination is to leave him alone.

Your thoughts? Again as with most of my topics, although the discussion usually involves a personal anecdote, please don't assume necessarily that this is a request for personal advice. Instead, I'd like for this to be more of a general back and forth discussion about the advantages of style conformity vs. individual preference.

If this gentleman is your student, not someone who's just training with you while on vacation, then I'd think you'd want him conforming to the technical standard you've established for your class. If he's doing something different and the other students see that you're not correcting him why wouldn't they think it's OK for them to do different things, too? Then you'd have to tell them to follow your instruction while at the same time leaving this new student to do what he wants. it might not be a big deal but it is a double standard which some students will see.

He's spending time in class to have you teach him. Why not teach him what you've taught the other students?

Pax,

Chris

 

[Flying Crane]

He may not want to do it boxing style but if he's been boxing for a long while it will be instinctive and not a reflection of how he feels about TKD.

sure, that's not disputed. But he if he trains in your school, he needs to be correct to do it your way. Not correcting him doesn't do him any favors when trying to learn your system.

 

[Tez3]

sure, that's not disputed. But he if he trains in your school, he needs to be correct to do it your way. Not correcting him doesn't do him any favors when trying to learn your system.

Isn't it going to be confusing though if some instructors do correct him and others don't? There's going to have to be a consensus among the instructors about what is taught. A meeting perhaps to discuss how training is to go forward? Would the chief instructor over rule the others if he felt it was okay to leave him to his boxing style even though the other instructors would prefer to correct him? Is the training of one person worth risking a rift even a small one among instructors? Perhaps the style comes first?
I'm going here with the OP who says he doesn't want advice so much as discussion.

 

[Flying Crane]

Isn't it going to be confusing though if some instructors do correct him and others don't?

of course it will. that's an obvious problem.

There's going to have to be a consensus among the instructors about what is taught. A meeting perhaps to discuss how training is to go forward?

sure.

Would the chief instructor over rule the others if he felt it was okay to leave him to his boxing style even though the other instructors would prefer to correct him?

yup, he runs the show. But it runs the danger of making the other staff question just what the hell are we teaching here anyway? If the teaching staff isn't versed in boxing technique, and a student is allowed to use boxing technique, I see a whole list of problems arising. Does he get to practice kata with "boxing" punches in it?

Is the training of one person worth risking a rift even a small one among instructors? Perhaps the style comes first?

I say, Nope, and Yup.

To me, the answer to this discussion is really really obvious. You come to me to learn something, you do it like I tell you even if that means changing what you've been doing before. If you don't want to change, then go elsewhere. Why would you come to learn from me if you don't want to do it like I teach it?

You don't have to throw away what you have already learned. Just file it away and keep it separate. On your own time, do that other stuff, no problem. But when you train with me, when you practice the stuff I'm teaching you, you do it the way I tell you and show you.

I really don't see any wiggle room for that.

honestly, if I started trying to do my White Crane like kenpo, and saying, "hey, this is my old habit, and I'm just gonna do it like this...", I'd be laughed right out the door by Sifu and the other students and that would be the end of my white crane training. Why would I waste everyone's time with something like that?

 

[Gorilla]

My kids are currently cross training in Shotokan. The approach that the Sensei is taking has been to add Shotokan to their arsenal. He is not changing the way they kick. He has certainly increased their ability to punch. The reverse punch is one Tech that has improved exponentially. His approach is "don't change what they are good at(TKD) add new techniques(Shotokan). When Sensei Hidaharu Igaki evaluated them he agreed with that philosophy. The x training had been excellent. We picked a very good instructor Hiroshi Allen.

 

[girlbug2]

He may not want to do it boxing style but if he's been boxing for a long while it will be instinctive and not a reflection of how he feels about TKD.

True. It took me forever to retrain from the "forward bow" fighting stance of EPAK to the more boxing style stance of Krav. I'm glad my instructors were both patient and persistent with me.

 

[Tony49]

I tend to let people keep their old Techniques provide they are done correctly. For example I teach kenpo so our kicks are generally not up to par with TKD kicks. So when I get a TKD practitioner in I tend to leave their kicks alone if done correctly by their standards. However, most of their punches are not up to par so I show them how we punch in Kenpo. the difference is I usually don't tell them to forget their old punch just add a new punch to their arsenal. However, if you can explain you version well enough most people will migrate to what they deem as the better technique. Who knows they might be able to explain there version better causing you to change your technique. An example of this for me was the hook punch. I was taught with the palm of your fist parallel to the ground, however, a boxing guy should me that having the palm perpendicular to the ground prevent the chance of getting a boxing fracture. This caused me to change my hook punch. It still a hook punch but now a safer one in my opinion.

 

[ForeverStudent]

If everyone who has posted so far were able to meet up to train and you all did the basic movements you considered defined TKD, how alike or different would they be?

Sorry, i spoted this right now. That happens when i don't subscribe

I think there would be differences. Under ITF i train (president Choi Jung Hwa) students up to III. degree are categorized as novice, so i think that mistakes and misunderstanding of moves are expectable. At higher levels not so much, if at all.

I have been at seminars at most respected and highest ranked master in my federation, and they all teach the same (except two of them who have some different view at what is the purpose of one move in one tul, but we speaking just about one move.) If everybody just listened to them and disalowed wrong interpretation of moves purpose, there woulnd't by any difference.

I mean, there would be differences, but not beacause taekwondo isn't defined, but because inproper teaching (which will always exist).

But again i think there wouldn't be too much differences if we meet!

 

[Gorilla]

I tend to let people keep their old Techniques provide they are done correctly. For example I teach kenpo so our kicks are generally not up to par with TKD kicks. So when I get a TKD practitioner in I tend to leave their kicks alone if done correctly by their standards. However, most of their punches are not up to par so I show them how we punch in Kenpo. the difference is I usually don't tell them to forget their old punch just add a new punch to their arsenal. However, if you can explain you version well enough most people will migrate to what they deem as the better technique. Who knows they might be able to explain there version better causing you to change your technique. An example of this for me was the hook punch. I was taught with the palm of your fist parallel to the ground, however, a boxing guy should me that having the palm perpendicular to the ground prevent the chance of getting a boxing fracture. This caused me to change my hook punch. It still a hook punch but now a safer one in my opinion.

Great Post

 

[miguksaram]

I tend to let people keep their old Techniques provide they are done correctly. For example I teach kenpo so our kicks are generally not up to par with TKD kicks. So when I get a TKD practitioner in I tend to leave their kicks alone if done correctly by their standards.

Do you know what their standards are?