Come in, or go away.

[JP3]

I hate it when people beat up on the levels. (Sorry, had to do it.)

I think you and I are on the same page with this. I've not had anyone as significantly affected as the example you give, but I did have someone come to a series of workshops I offered who'd had some severely bad experiences. She toughed it out, even though she needed to stop and cry every time someone touched her neck (her experience involved an actual "rape choke"). She didn't join classes long-term, but made decent progress in the few weeks of the seminar series. It took a different approach to help her get started, and her discomfort was very different from those folks who just danced around topics.

Ya got me... I didn't proofread it.

As to your student.... PTSD is a ... well fill in the blank.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Educated guessing then. Rationalize it however you like but I still consider that to be speculation. Unless you're suggesting you have followed these folks to confirm they never train. That sounds dubious.

I've followed the history of those I kept answering, and they never trained. That's enough input for me to extrapolate from. In my experience, it was a consistent predictor. When you find a consistent predictor, you make decisions based upon them unless and until you find evidence that contradicts prior experience.

EDIT: I should add here that it's entirely possible those folks I kept answering finally trained somewhere else. If that's true, I wasn't ever going to be able to help them, and their pattern is an indicator of someone who won't ever train with me. Note that I'm not dismissing them as untrainable, just recognizing that I've never managed to get one such person to come train. I can't help them. If someone else can, I need to get them off my phone so they'll call someone with the requisite skills to do so.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

This whole thing reminds me of that guy who used to come on here (can't even remember his name), asking a ton of questions about Martial Arts but never took the effort to actually go to a Martial Arts class, for x,y,z reasons that were all as pathetic as the next. Just like the person on the phone to the OP, it got to the point where we all stopped answering his questions and just told him to go to a class and find out for himself.

 

[hoshin1600]

just like on line , some phone calls are just trolls. you can tell a troll on line and you can tell a troll on the phone.

 

[Flatfish]

Not usually in the UK, we have lots of other words like crotchgoblin that we use, or cockwomble even wankspangle.

Sh^tgibbon is still my favorite

 

[lklawson]

English is not my native language. But when you call someone "Son" on the phone, is that considered to be rude?

Your post just remind me something like the following:

A: I just want to look around.
B: If you don't intend to buy, or you can't afford to buy, don't hang around and don't waste my time.

IMO, there is no "bad customers" but only "bad salesperson".

Feh. It's his school, he can do it however he wants. If he wants to be choosy, he can be choosy based on whatever he wants. If he wants to be choosy based on whether or not someone irritates him on the phone, that's his choice.

I know one instructor who will only teach based on whether or not someone he knows and trusts refers the new student to him. No walk-ins. Not even a public store-front.

I know of one school which basically doesn't answer questions from phone calls beyond some basics of where to find the published content. You can go online and see reviews of classes and what the basic curriculum will be. If you don't show up with the right equipment, they'll sell or rent it to you.

I came across one club, years ago, who claimed to teach African or Nubian Martial Arts (think "ancient Egyptian" or the like). They categorically refused to teach anyone who wasn't ethnically black. Is that racist? Yes. But it wasn't a commercial club. They can choose their students based on whatever they want.

Me, personally, I'll have phone conversations if I have the time. Otherwise, I say that I can't talk and goodbye. Show up to my class and if I don't like you, then go away. I also don't teach kids when I teach western martial arts. My club. My way.

I get what you're saying. It's the standard model for public sales/service institutions. If I were running a Jiffy Lube and I wanted to make lots of money, then your way is usually right.

But most places, during most times in history, martial arts instruction, indeed most any knowledge and skills based instruction, is a sellers market. The seller gets to decide, based on their own criteria, whether or not the customer will get the training.

So if he wants to be Foghorn Leghorn, "I say, I say.. You bug me son. Go away" that's perfectly acceptable.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Anyone else remember this thread?

Is this a red flag?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tony Dismukes]

This whole thing reminds me of that guy who used to come on here (can't even remember his name), asking a ton of questions about Martial Arts but never took the effort to actually go to a Martial Arts class, for x,y,z reasons that were all as pathetic as the next. Just like the person on the phone to the OP, it got to the point where we all stopped answering his questions and just told him to go to a class and find out for himself.

I think we had a couple of those guys.

 

[JR 137]

This whole thing reminds me of that guy who used to come on here (can't even remember his name), asking a ton of questions about Martial Arts but never took the effort to actually go to a Martial Arts class, for x,y,z reasons that were all as pathetic as the next. Just like the person on the phone to the OP, it got to the point where we all stopped answering his questions and just told him to go to a class and find out for himself.

I was thinking about him too - kehkorpz, or something like that.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I think we had a couple of those guys.

I'm sure you've had many such people come through here at one time or another

 

[ShortBridge]

...My club. My way...

Right.

 

[Steve]

I understand the "my club; my way" thing, but I don't think Bill, the OP, has his own school.

 

[drop bear]

Feh. It's his school, he can do it however he wants. If he wants to be choosy, he can be choosy based on whatever he wants. If he wants to be choosy based on whether or not someone irritates him on the phone, that's his choice.

I know one instructor who will only teach based on whether or not someone he knows and trusts refers the new student to him. No walk-ins. Not even a public store-front.

I know of one school which basically doesn't answer questions from phone calls beyond some basics of where to find the published content. You can go online and see reviews of classes and what the basic curriculum will be. If you don't show up with the right equipment, they'll sell or rent it to you.

I came across one club, years ago, who claimed to teach African or Nubian Martial Arts (think "ancient Egyptian" or the like). They categorically refused to teach anyone who wasn't ethnically black. Is that racist? Yes. But it wasn't a commercial club. They can choose their students based on whatever they want.

Me, personally, I'll have phone conversations if I have the time. Otherwise, I say that I can't talk and goodbye. Show up to my class and if I don't like you, then go away. I also don't teach kids when I teach western martial arts. My club. My way.

I get what you're saying. It's the standard model for public sales/service institutions. If I were running a Jiffy Lube and I wanted to make lots of money, then your way is usually right.

But most places, during most times in history, martial arts instruction, indeed most any knowledge and skills based instruction, is a sellers market. The seller gets to decide, based on their own criteria, whether or not the customer will get the training.

So if he wants to be Foghorn Leghorn, "I say, I say.. You bug me son. Go away" that's perfectly acceptable.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Does he even know he is creating the exact kind of conversations that he complains about?

Big trick to bouncing effectively by the way is knowing when you are being the duchebag.

It integrates quite well in to sales. Or just having less fights with people.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Does he even know he is creating the exact kind of conversations that he complains about?

Big trick to bouncing effectively by the way is knowing when you are being the duchebag.

It integrates quite well in to sales. Or just having less fights with people.

Which "he" are you referring to here?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I understand the "my club; my way" thing,...

Sometime even if it's your school, you still have some restriction.

When I had my MA school, one day a group of black panther members came and requested private lesson. I accepted. Next day a FBI member came and wanted me to provide him the names and information. I didn't want to get into that kind of trouble. I told the black panther members that for their own good, it's better that I did not provide them that class. They understood and left.

 

[drop bear]

Which "he" are you referring to here?

Op.

 

[lklawson]

Does he even know he is creating the exact kind of conversations that he complains about?

So what?

Big trick to bouncing effectively by the way is knowing when you are being the duchebag.

Again, so what? There's one famous martial artist who is also frequently credited with being a douchebag. People line up to take classes from him. He claims that he had to beg his instructor to teach him and had the door, literally, slammed in his face multiple times as he was begging.

You may not like it, but it is a pretty common method of culling "unserious" students throughout history.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Buka]

As a patron, I never frequented places where bouncers were douchebags. As a bouncer, I never worked with any. It was years ago, though, maybe things have changed.

 

[drop bear]

So what?

Again, so what? There's one famous martial artist who is also frequently credited with being a douchebag. People line up to take classes from him. He claims that he had to beg his instructor to teach him and had the door, literally, slammed in his face multiple times as he was begging.

You may not like it, but it is a pretty common method of culling "unserious" students throughout history.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

There is one famous martial artist who complains he never gets asked to do seminars. Then complains his students get great reviews for theirs.

Nobody ever told him why.

And again for him, so what? I don't really like the guy so he can figure that out for himself.

On the other hand. I have no issue with Bill.

So letting him walk out in front of a bus so I can say.

"So what?" Would make me the duchebag. Which to my own standards I try not to be.

 

[drop bear]

As a patron, I never frequented places where bouncers were douchebags. As a bouncer, I never worked with any. It was years ago, though, maybe things have changed.

It took me 20 years to learn how to not duchebag bounce. How to act in a manner that considers the needs of other people.

And it is especially relevant here because you take a person and put them in a strange environment and then go off at them because they dont understand the rules.

Happens in sales a lot. Which I notice because it was considered bad bouncing.

And the trick is. You do an approach judge a reaction. If the reaction is bad. Dont consider it the fault of the other guy. Change the approach. The better your approach the better everyone else becomes. Seriously they get smarter and more pleasant.