Close Quarter Knife Throws

[drop bear]

Just for reference, this is the relevant part of the law in my state


With that said, there's a bit of leeway in there. Mainly in whether or not the person can fully retreat safely. To me, in a situation where you disengage and throw a knife, you're not yet fully safe. A good lawyer though could probably convince a jury otherwise. And I would bet that part of that argument would be that the person either A: felt safe enough to throw away his weapon, therefore should have felt safe enough to run, B: had already proven that he was capable of creating space and therefore was capable of fully disengaging and leaving without continued use of a deadly weapon.

Unfortunately I've seen people argue more idiotic things then that a person with the ability to throw a weapon could have run away.

As a parallel, there have been a few times where someone shot someone five feet away, when the other guy had a knife and was aggressive. Plenty of people around me said that the 21 feet thing was false, even if I showed them proof. With a jury of my peers, those are the people that would decide if I was justified to throw my knife at the guy.

Yeah I was wondering if the 21 foot rule discrepancy would come up.

Bear in mind it is closer to the 21cm rule in this case.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yeah I was wondering if the 21 foot rule discrepancy would come up.

Bear in mind it is closer to the 21cm rule in this case.

Yeah, absolutely. You are no means safe just because you got a foot away from the dude.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Don't say things are legal to carry if you're not an attorney giving legal advice. If a cop decides your benwa balls are a weapon, you'll be so charged.

 

[dunc]

Can a knife thrown anywhere other than the face really do any meaningful damage?

 

[lklawson]

I’m gonna guess that there may be some serious legal and criminal ramifications for sticking someone with a throwing knife. It does rather imply that the fellow was out of reach and therefor more difficult to justify self defense.

It's way more complex than that. There are lots of times when a bit of distance doesn't mean there is no justifiable threat. That could be anything from the aggressor having a distance weapon of his own to going through the invocation of (what is now called) the Tueller Principle and lots of stuff in between.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I've heard two similar supposedly Filipino phrases, but neither involve giving up the blade. The first is "carry 6 knives. 2 for you, 2 for your friend, 2 for his friend." The second is the same as the first, but halve the numbers.

Throwing knives used to be standard U.S. military training from pre-Civil War going up through WWI and sometimes later. There's one story I read dating from the Indian Wars on the frontier where the blue-coated soldiers would go out of the Fort every morning and practice throwing their knives into the exterior wooden palisades. In part this was to hone their skill and in part this was because they knew the tribes were surveilling them and it was thought that the exhibition of skill would help to discourage attacks.

Thrown weapons have a long history with mankind and are inclusive of single combat, dueling, and group combat, both pre and post firearms.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I think that would depend on where you live. If you live somewhere with a duty to flee, then throwing a knife could suggest that you had the ability to flee.

Not necessarily. The Duty to Retreat is not usually viewed as so black and white in most places in the U.S. If someone is in the process of attacking you, regardless of the weapon, there really isn't usually a Duty to Retreat at that point. It's too late.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

You can throw the Baoding ball and cause as much damage as your throwing knife.

Which is why most knives are short, blunt, and round...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

In general you're right, but what that justification is depends on the state/country. And even if you're justified, in america, you'll have to convince a bunch of people with no legal training or real knowledge that you were justified to throw your knife at the guy.

Not necessarily. There are usually a number of steps before it gets to a jury trial. Most places there is an individual or office with Prosecutor Discretion who/which often choose not to pursue charges if it appears after initial police investigation to be a justifiable use of force.

I hate to say it, but many people on this forum need to read some books by people like Mas Ayoob and Andrew Branca. There is a lot of misunderstanding and lack of understanding of use of force law and deadly force law that I see frequently here.

Here's a lot of great free stuff from Andrew Branca (lawyer specializing in self defense):
Search - CCW Safe - CCW Safe National | CCW Safe Weapon Liability | CCW Safe Defense Attorneys
Blog – Law of Self Defense

Peace favor your sword,
Kirkk

 

[lklawson]

Can a knife thrown anywhere other than the face really do any meaningful damage?

Yes.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Martial D]

Some various practical close quarter knife throws ive been working on lately. Ive trained this while sparring with polypropylene knives, but wanted to show them sticking.

Cool and all but it doesn't seem too practical. You are in effect disarming yourself while arming your opponent, while at the same time sacrificing the one advantage of throwing ,which is distance.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

Cool and all but it doesn't seem too practical. You are in effect disarming yourself while arming your opponent, while at the same time sacrificing the one advantage of throwing ,which is distance.

This wouldnt be a "go to" but there is practicality in it

I am disarming my self (if i only have 1 knife) but this can create an opening for escape or startle them before my next attack.

If they want to pull it out and use it i guess they could, I could go for the same thing, or push it in as they try to pull it out.

This 1-2ft distance in the fight isnt necessarily an advantage, actually could be a hindrance if they have better foot work and are able to stay our of range of my attacks, and this could close that gap.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's way more complex than that. There are lots of times when a bit of distance doesn't mean there is no justifiable threat. That could be anything from the aggressor having a distance weapon of his own to going through the invocation of (what is now called) the Tueller Principle and lots of stuff in between.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yup. It gets complicated, in both directions.

 

[Martial D]

This wouldnt be a "go to" but there is practicality in it

I am disarming my self (if i only have 1 knife) but this can create an opening for escape or startle them before my next attack.

If they want to pull it out and use it i guess they could, I could go for the same thing, or push it in as they try to pull it out.

This 1-2ft distance in the fight isnt necessarily an advantage, actually could be a hindrance if they have better foot work and are able to stay our of range of my attacks, and this could close that gap.

Ehh..ok.

You do you.

 

[jobo]

I'm a bit.......? about it, throwing from that distance makes no sense and there's not enough energy to actually stick in someone to any depth, a bit of softwood is one thing, but that just going to bounce off someone, maybe they will have a small cut probably not if they have a jacket onfrits not going to penetrate the abs and certainly not a rib cage ,,now if you can hit them in the heart from 20 foot with a bowie knife traveling at 50 mph, then I'd be impressed

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can a knife thrown anywhere other than the face really do any meaningful damage?

The face would be one of the least useful places to strike with a thrown knife. Or one held in the hand.

But, since people are quoting old sayings, I'll add...
The man who throws his knife in a fight...
Loses his knife.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

I'm a bit.......? about it, throwing from that distance makes no sense and there's not enough energy to actually stick in someone to any depth, a bit of softwood is one thing, but that just going to bounce off someone, maybe they will have a small cut probably not if they have a jacket onfrits not going to penetrate the abs and certainly not a rib cage ,,now if you can hit them in the heart from 20 foot with a bowie knife traveling at 50 mph, then I'd be impressed

Im not here to impress you

there are plenty of youtube videos that demonstrate different knives being thrown at animal meats, i have have similar force but at close range - longer range would also telegraph the throw and give them time to avoid it

people also dont wear jackets all year round and i wouldnt preferentially aim where someone has a jacket if they did

and penetration isnt necessarily my primary objective with the technique

 

[dunc]

Yes.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I’d love to see some sort of evidence for this

Mostly we see knives being thrown with a lot of energy into static flat surfaces, and even then not really going in deep

When you add curved surfaces that are mobile and wearing clothing I’m guessing that it’ll take a large knife thrown with a lot of force at a short distance to do much damage, which I suspect isn’t particularly effective

 

[jobo]

Im not here to impress you

there are plenty of youtube videos that demonstrate different knives being thrown at animal meats, i have have similar force but at close range - longer range would also telegraph the throw and give them time to avoid it

people also dont wear jackets all year round and i wouldnt preferentially aim where someone has a jacket if they did

and penetration isnt necessarily my primary objective with the technique

really you are throwing a knife at someone WITHOUT the primary objective of the knife penetrating them, you may as well throw metal balls at them

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

@jobo - as i stated it doesnt have to be the primary objective, there are multiple ways these techniques are advantageous