dvcochran
Grandmaster
That could definitely be the 'K' looking symbol.
Chuck Norris and TKD
- Thread starter Brad Dunne
- Start date
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Again, you misunderstand. You have a claim of TSD schools in the 1950's having similar technique to TKD. My point being outside of the Oh Do Kwan which was the singular military gym at that time there were few if any TKD schools so your point has no merit. Of course the Oh Do Kwan which contained many CDK alums trained in TSD would have had people who retained some TSD habits.
So, once again I ask if you have any support for your point and if so please specify any TKD schools outside the Oh Do Kwan that even existed during the time frame you specify? So far all you have is some video of Koreans Kicking and punching that someone labelled TKD.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
So, now is your claim that any Korean system is TKD? Is that your basis for claiming that Chuck Norris studied TKD in Korea?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
So, have you now changed your claim from the 1950's to 1960's ?
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
Had General Chois unification efforts failed then you, Mr Weiss, would have most likely been doing Tang Soo Do in 2021, as would I, and the KKW TaeKwonDo branch would have been called Tae Soo Do.
Had I in this life path told you that there is an alternate universe in which General Choi won and Tang Soo Do was renamed TaeKwonDo, you would have labelled me a lunatic.
In Hugh Everetts Many Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, which Stephen Hawkings swore to, this alternative branch has happened...
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
So yes, I am not going to let politics get in the way of the fact that we are part of the family known as Korean Karate.
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
My basis for that claim is that the philosophy, techniques and emphasis didn't change with General Chois Oh Do Kwan branch from the already existing Tang Soo Do system. He copy and pasted Gishin Funakoshis one strike, one kill, and changed "kill" to "victory" . He also took the makiwara and put in the first encyclopedia as a training tool.
If you drive up in a Lexus and I said: "Nice Toyota!" Would you take offense?
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
AND, in the first Korean Tae Kwon-Do Encyclopedia, Choi also referenced/demo'd Shotokan Katas!
So if Chuck Norris isn't TaeKwonDo for practising Shotokan Katas, neither is Chois Oh Do Kwan branch in the 50s.
So if Chuck Norris isn't TaeKwonDo for practising Shotokan Katas, neither is Chois Oh Do Kwan branch in the 50s.
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Earl Weiss
Senior Master
I wouldn't because it would never happen, I am a "Detroit Iron" guy. But I know some who would and have.
No. Your ignorance is your problem.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
This is a question of perspective and a matter of degree so it's a silly point to argue. It would be like arguing when Shotokan was distinct from the Shorin and Shorei Ryus since Funakoshi adopted a lot of the prior stuff. Similarly one could make the claim concerning Kano and Judo and it's predecessors.
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
If some aquintances of yours in a social gathering says that you do "Karate", would you correct him? He only missed a word for it to be correct.
Point remains, if there is something that would have changed in Chuck Norris's tournament fighting by affiliating with the Oh Do Kwan Branch, I would like to know what that is. If no such thing that can be referenced, then "virtually indistinguishable" is a correct way of putting it.
While we are on the subject of semantics... Why didn't the late Skipper Mullins change school name to TaeKwonDo?
"In 1968, he became the vice president of Steen's Texas Karate Institute.[2] He was a founding member and director of the Southwest Karate Black Belt Association, later renamed the American Karate Black Belt Association.[2]"
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
First and foremost calling it "The Encyclopedia' is erroneous. That refers to the 15 Volume set.
Secondly, these patterns were clearly identified as being from the "Shorin" and "Shorei" (page 216) Schools which predated Shotokan, so are either wrong again or simply have a disdain for accurate terminology.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
You betcha. I would tell him "Karate is for people who can't do TK-D."
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
You are seriously asking me this question. Perhaps one day you will get to ask Skipper Mullins.
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
You betcha. I would tell him "Karate is for people who can't do TK-D."
Ha! Would you tell that to this guy? He might have some resemblance to me..Not sure... . . I hope he doesn't sue me for copyright infringement!
He was a kicker.Attachments
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
Well, you made the case that patterns define the name of the art.. You seem to be in a minority with that viewpoint
SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
I don't think GM Weiss was making that case at all. You really like to argue every post, huh?
Those early days where the names and lines were blurred. People chose sides, people used names, so what? I fall into a category of retaining Japanese/Okinawan Karate forms, but also use the term Taekwondo. Why? Because that is what my Kwan Jang Nim calls it. He was part of the Moo Duk Kwan that joined the unification process, but many of those folks left Korea before many of the "updates" happened. Why would he learn something erroneously new, just to maintain a namesake? I don't believe it makes my art any less valid to call it Taekwondo. IMHO, Taekwondo is a broad umbrella term, similar to Karate.
InfiniteLoop
Black Belt
"Am I doing Tang Soo Do or TaeKwonDo if I train without doing patterns?" His reply was that I am doing neither in that case.
It's not that complicated. An art can be defined by it's curriculum. Forms are part of that curriculum. If you're not training using that curriculum, you're not practicing that art. You're just practicing kicking and punching.
