Christopher Colombus (Split from Taekwondo isn't from Karate...thread)

[elder999]

which Africans told him and how did they know where Columbus had been, ?

Slave traders spoke to Portuguese of "a river in the ocean" that carried them across the Atlantic, and the lands they visited there. They were, of course, speaking of the North and South Equatorial currents, by which one can cross the Atlantic in a small craft in 60 days or less.
The King of Portugal, lord of the slave trade, knew of this, and thus had an idea of where Columbus had been.

 

[jobo]

Slave traders spoke to Portuguese of "a river in the ocean" that carried them across the Atlantic, and the lands they visited there. They were, of course, speaking of the North and South Equatorial currents, by which one can cross the Atlantic in a small craft in 60 days or less.
The King of Portugal, lord of the slave trade, knew of this, and thus had an idea of where Columbus had been.

so African s didn't tell him where Columba's had been like you said, I suspect your making things up

 

[elder999]

so African s didn't tell him where Columba's had been like you said, I suspect your making things up

Np. I don't make things up.
Columbus may have, though....

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories - Wikipedia

 

[JR 137]

Why do they speak Portuguese in Brazil, instead of Spanish?

I read somewhere it was part of a settlement/agreement between Spain and Portugal. Everything west of a certain line was Spain’s, and east of it was Portugal’s. Brazil is I believe the easternmost part of continental North and South America. Portuguese settled/traded there, thereby using their language.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As a further note, being a teacher, I’m all for teaching the truth. But when my daughter was in second grade and came home the Friday before Columbus Day saying we shouldn’t have the day off because Columbus was a bad guy who killed people, something’s just not very settling. I’ve heard the same thing from young ones at my school. Teach that stuff to high school kids, not 7 year olds.

Yeah, you can teach them truth without that. It's probably enough at that age to say he didn't really know he'd found a way to America, did some things we wouldn't agree with today, etc.

 

[Tez3]

King John the Second had a

The Africans got there first.

Columbus had a fair idea where he was going, contrary to the myth.

The King of Portugal knew where Columbus had been, had heard of it from Africans, and when Columbus stopped in Lisbon, he threatened war with Spain because the lands "discovered" by Columbus rightfully belonged to Portugal because of the Treaty of Alcocovas, negotiated and signed in 1479 . The treaty negotiated as a result of this, the Treaty of Tordesillas, established new lines for the "new lands," and granted Portugal the larger part of South America......

King John the Second had a history with Spain anyway. As a Sephardic Jew I know that when the Spanish threw Jews out of Spain, King John, for a price allowed many to settle in Portugal, he also provided boats again for a price for other Jews to go to Tangier and Arzila. Others were sent to settle the island of Sao Tome. King John sent many expeditions to find lands for Portugal to colonise.

 

[jobo]

Np. I don't make things up.
Columbus may have, though....

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories - Wikipedia

I'm not sure what point your supporting with that link, there nothing there about a conversation between africans and the king of Spain, which was your main claim.

There any number of ideas about who got to America, by what royte and when, it's certain that Columbus knew it was there before he set off, various Mediterranean / North African cultures had the technology to sail the atlantic for a couple of thousand years, if they did so and when is hard to establish , but old maps show a land mass there, as they also show australia and anartica . The Oriental cultures also had the tech to go,

Of all the claims I find that African did it by canue the hardest to accept, but you never know, africans built a proper sail boat and went is a but more likely

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Guys...

I hate to break it to you, but the first non-indigenous person to set foot in North America was my ancestor, Madoc.

Madoc - Wikipedia

"Madoc" became "Mattocks" and I'm the last heir to that dynasty. It's OK, you don't have bow or anything.

 

[Tez3]

Guys...

I hate to break it to you, but the first non-indigenous person to set foot in North America was my ancestor, Madoc.

Madoc - Wikipedia

"Madoc" became "Mattocks" and I'm the last heir to that dynasty. It's OK, you don't have bow or anything.

I hope you know how to pronounce the Welsh then!

 

[wanderingstudent]

Read "Lies my teacher told me", earlier this winter; a real eye opener.

I also, saw a show on CPTV last night about the Spanish colonizing Southern Florida- Saint Augustine area, and they had a fort a little north. I forget the name of the Native Americans, it started with a "T".

Oh, it made me think of the how history books portray the English and Spanish. At one point, there was a map of Spanish Occupancy it showed Florida, the Midwest- to the Pacific, and all lands South. This left the Northeast open, for English Occupancy. I am assuming the other area where Louisiana is was French, but that wasn't mentioned.

Hope to catch the show again.

 

[Tez3]

Read "Lies my teacher told me", earlier this winter; a real eye opener.

I also, saw a show on CPTV last night about the Spanish colonizing Southern Florida- Saint Augustine area, and they had a fort a little north. I forget the name of the Native Americans, it started with a "T".

Oh, it made me think of the how history books portray the English and Spanish. At one point, there was a map of Spanish Occupancy it showed Florida, the Midwest- to the Pacific, and all lands South. This left the Northeast open, for English Occupancy. I am assuming the other area where Louisiana is was French, but that wasn't mentioned.

Hope to catch the show again.

Not 'English' occupancy, British. I'd suggest American history books often tell a different story to the rest of the worlds ones. Take Paul Revere for example he's credited with another man's exploits. Blame Longfellow for that and people for taking it as truth. The truth is in Revere's own writing. So much is re-written to suit the majority ruling at the time.

French Immigration to America: History for kids ***

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not 'English' occupancy, British. I'd suggest American history books often tell a different story to the rest of the worlds ones. Take Paul Revere for example he's credited with another man's exploits. Blame Longfellow for that and people for taking it as truth. The truth is in Revere's own writing. So much is re-written to suit the majority ruling at the time.

French Immigration to America: History for kids ***

The american history books tell use about the british occupancy. Most americans just don't care and use britain, england and the UK interchangeably. CNN actually had to include the differences in one of their articles recently, even though I've seen them mix it up plenty as well.

When I was in high school, we learned very little about paul revere. We learned the poem, that the poem was wrong, and what actually happened. People seem to be taught (not you, basically any foreigner), that americans know less than everyone else about the american revolution, when in reality (I hope) we spend more time learning about it in school than any other country. We had two whole years while I was in school dedicated to pretty much just that. I don't get why that is.

I only skimmed the french immigration link...what is the purpose of it? Are you stating that it's inaccurate or biased?

 

[jobo]

The american history books tell use about the british occupancy. Most americans just don't care and use britain, england and the UK interchangeably. CNN actually had to include the differences in one of their articles recently, even though I've seen them mix it up plenty as well.

When I was in high school, we learned very little about paul revere. We learned the poem, that the poem was wrong, and what actually happened. People seem to be taught (not you, basically any foreigner), that americans know less than everyone else about the american revolution, when in reality (I hope) we spend more time learning about it in school than any other country. We had two whole years while I was in school dedicated to pretty much just that. I don't get why that is.

I only skimmed the french immigration link...what is the purpose of it? Are you stating that it's inaccurate or biased?

Its because you have so little recorded history, it only starts in the 1700s, other countries have to included the previous 2000 years, so can't afford to spend two years on one little war

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The american history books tell use about the british occupancy. Most americans just don't care and use britain, england and the UK interchangeably. CNN actually had to include the differences in one of their articles recently, even though I've seen them mix it up plenty as well.

When I was in high school, we learned very little about paul revere. We learned the poem, that the poem was wrong, and what actually happened. People seem to be taught (not you, basically any foreigner), that americans know less than everyone else about the american revolution, when in reality (I hope) we spend more time learning about it in school than any other country. We had two whole years while I was in school dedicated to pretty much just that. I don't get why that is.

I only skimmed the french immigration link...what is the purpose of it? Are you stating that it's inaccurate or biased?

Need to correct this. I dont think we spent a full 2 years on it, but definitely at least one year, and probably more.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Its because you have so little recorded history, it only starts in the 1700s, other countries have to included the previous 2000 years, so can't afford to spend two years on one little war

Exactly. You guys have so much more to learn, in the same amount of time. So I domt get where the idea that Europeans know more about the history of the USA than americans comes from.

 

[jobo]

Exactly. You guys have so much more to learn, in the same amount of time. So I domt get where the idea that Europeans know more about the history of the USA than americans comes from.

to be fair to Americans, the generally history of Britain is a complete mystery to most Britain's, you could spend a very long time trying to find anyone who could explain to English civic war (revolution ) to you if they even knew we had one,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

to be fair to Americans, the generally history of Britain is a complete mystery to most Britain's, you could spend a very long time trying to find anyone who could explain to English civic war (revolution ) to you if they even knew we had one,

I know it existed. It's mentioned frequently in the Brother Cadfael mysteries. That's where my British/English history comes from.

 

[jobo]

I know it existed. It's mentioned frequently in the Brother Cadfael mysteries. That's where my British/English history comes from.

I suspect not, cadfael was 400 years to soon,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_Wa

e was 200 years to soon for the wars of the roses and two Hundred years to late for the Norman invasion, though more or less right for the crusades

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I suspect not, cadfael was 400 years to soon,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_Wa

e was 200 years to soon for the wars of the roses and two Hundred years to late for the Norman invasion, though more or less right for the crusades

Different civil war-ish fighting, then.

 

[Tez3]

Different civil war-ish fighting, then.

We actually had quite a few civil wars.
History is one of my great interests, the one people call the Civil War when Charles the First was beheaded and the Commonwealth formed is of great interest to me as Cromwell invited Jews to come back in the country, they had been expelled in 1290 CE and returned in 1656 CE.

You guys have so much more to learn, in the same amount of time. So I domt get where the idea that Europeans know more about the history of the USA than americans comes from.

In the same amount of time? Are you sure? We start school at four and a half, leave at 16 or 18, a lot of years to learn history. University and college is extra years. Apart from the obvious that the history of the Americas is also the history of Europe ( who did you think 'settled the country' if not Europeans? You seem to be very defensive about your couple of hundred years history while forgetting the interdependency of your history with ours. Did you know how many people were driven to famine and poverty in the UK because of your Civil War? Look up 'Cotton Famine'.

I only skimmed the french immigration link...what is the purpose of it? Are you stating that it's inaccurate or biased?

You stated you knew little, I posted a link to help with that, what are you so crotchety about this?
if Americans are so 'not bothered' about what you call the British 'occupancy' ( think you need to research more about that)why do so many Americans search for British roots? Many Americans at the time didn't 'rebel' against the British, they were paying far less tax than British people and had the same amount of votes as they did.... ie not very many. Universal suffrage didn't come for a very long time and it came in the UK a long time before it did in the US ( 1965 for black people in the USA)


Learning what you are taught and learning the truth are often two very different things, you always have to bear than in mind.

if you really want to get Europeans and Brits mad you should start quoting the US version of the Second World War.