Christian Kenpo Schools

[Tenguru]

You can die by bumping into a counter top and having a blood clot go straight to your brain. Death is not the issue, its timing. I think Oyama would have had a different experience if they let two or three Bulls loose after him, but that's beside the point. What can result from Kenpo and what the art essentialy is, are two different things. Any fool can gouge an eye out, or crush a trachea but the art is not about specialized moves. They are simply tactics made more lethal by refined motion. Its like saying foot-ball is all about the occassional compound fracture.
Sean

I have the impression that you can't reconcile your personal belief system with the legacy of the art that you practice.

In no way am I suggesting that Kenpoka are killers. I'm stating that kenpo is an art designed to inflict serious injury and possibly death. It wasn't designed primarily as a feel-good, get-in-touch-with-your-inner-child hobby.

 

[Tenguru]

...
What can result from Kenpo and what the art essentialy is, are two different things.
...
Sean

Exactly. There are many positive things that come out of training kenpo/kempo. But do not try to sweep the essence of the art under the proverbial rug.

 

[kosho]

Not totally getting in to this here, BUT for me the highest level of KEMPO/KENPO is no physical contact. the lowest is the war arts. and we all know the war arts of Kempo/Kenpo are truly devistating.
Thats it Im out.
kosho

 

[bushidomartialarts]

a good point and good post, kosho.

the greatest warrior wins without fighting, or words to that effect.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

As a non-Christian, this is quite confusing to me... There are many varieties of Kenpo and many varieties of Christianity. Does the type of Kenpo you practice have to align with your branch of Christianity?

For instance, is EPAK a Protestant thing? Is Tatum lineage Baptist and Planas Pentacostal? Is Tracy's a Catholic Kenpo? Is Nick Cerio's Kenpo Eastern Orthodox? What if you aren't a Christian? Would it no longer be Kenpo? For instance, if you learned Kenpo at a Buddhist temple, that wouldn't be "true" Kenpo anymore, right? What if you learned Kenpo from a Shaolin Monk, would it be Shaolin Kenpo? If you combined Jiu Jitsu with Kenpo, would you have to join Jews for Jesus?

Please discuss.

 

[CoryKS]

It could be as simple a thing as creating an environment where the instructors and students feel comfortable talking about such things, whether or not it applies to training.

The manager of one of our schools wrote an essay in our regional newsletter in which he drew heavily from his Christian upbringing. Didn't bother me, but during subsequent classes the instructors at our school felt it necessary to announce that the writer's views were his own, did not necessarily reflect those of the organization, etc.

If you specify up front that that is the environment you are trying to establish, the burden is on your potential customers to filter themselves out if they have a problem with it rather than make the school change its policies. This will probably reduce your potential customer base, however.

 

[Ray]

Any fool can gouge an eye out, or crush a trachea but the art is not about specialized moves. They are simply tactics made more lethal by refined motion.

By logical extension, any fool can knock out another by striking the head...In actual practice only a well trained fool can KO one of the top contenders in the ring.

Any fool can gouge an eye out if a bigger fool lets him?

 

[Touch Of Death]

again, i have to respectfully disagree.

the history of our art is pretty clear: many of the moves were designed to maim, disfigure and kill.

again, i admire your teacher for moving away from our -- interesting -- past. but pick up some of the source material or read interviews with chow or mitose. awareness of past orthodoxy is key to moving beyond them.

I won't step on the sales tactics of Mitose and Chow other than to call their description of the art a sales tactic. Even moves meant to disfigure are a means of controlling that person as a lesson to him, her, or others. Control is the big principle; death and disfigurment are sub catagories of control. The history of the art is also about control. The methods of control are not what the art is about. The word Kenpo means Fist Law not Fist methods.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

By logical extension, any fool can knock out another by striking the head...In actual practice only a well trained fool can KO one of the top contenders in the ring.

Any fool can gouge an eye out if a bigger fool lets him?

That well trained fool must have a lot of control.:ultracool

 

[Touch Of Death]

Exactly. There are many positive things that come out of training kenpo/kempo. But do not try to sweep the essence of the art under the proverbial rug.

Death is not the essence of anything.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I have the impression that you can't reconcile your personal belief system with the legacy of the art that you practice.

In no way am I suggesting that Kenpoka are killers. I'm stating that kenpo is an art designed to inflict serious injury and possibly death. It wasn't designed primarily as a feel-good, get-in-touch-with-your-inner-child hobby.

When did I say it was anything other than being about control?
Sean

 

[Kenpsy7]

In reply to several of your posts. First, the kenpo school is a ministry of a local Independent Baptist church, and is taught under the direction of the church as a ministry. Second, I do not charge any monies for classes. The only requirements are hard work, dedication, respect, patience ect. For belt promotions I do charge $5.00 for the cost of the belt and printing of the colored certificate and I pay sales tax on all material, so there is no tax shelter. I freely offer my time and help to any student willing to learn. A student does not have to be a professing christian to attend classes, earn belt promotions ect. Again, I tell all persons before they attend the class that it is a christian ministry and all that that entails as described in my previous post.
I still have not heard from any christian kenpo school teachers on this site. Perhaps it is like asking a group of vegitarians where their butcher shop is... This may not be a forum that christians feel comfortable expressing themselves in..I don't know. Please don't take my last comments as insulting or cutting...they were not ment to be in any way.

 

[Brian Jones]

Actually there are several teachers who frequent this site who do exaclty what you are tlakign about. At the very least they make a point of professing thier faith. They may simply not have had a chance to read this thread. I teach at a school and do the same. And I have never had any problems. Mainly because I do what you do. Simply be very up front about the schools focus and ministry.

Brian Jones

 

[donald]

I think Oyama would have had a different experience if they let two or three Bulls loose after him, but that's beside the point.

Are you saying one was'nt enough? I don't remember hearing about Mr.Oyama slaying any bulls, but I do recall the reports of his shuto chopping horns off!!! I don't think those demos really reflected anything, but Mr.Oyama's machismo... Although it probably did wonders for his membership rolls.

1stJohn1:9

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I still have not heard from any christian kenpo school teachers on this site. Perhaps it is like asking a group of vegitarians where their butcher shop is... This may not be a forum that christians feel comfortable expressing themselves in..I don't know. Please don't take my last comments as insulting or cutting...they were not ment to be in any way.

Mine is a Christian school.

AoG

 

[Seabrook]

I am a Christian, but I teach people of all faith backgrounds. My students are there to WORK HARD and learn how to defend themselves so that is my focus for my school.

 

[distalero]

As a non-Christian, this is quite confusing to me... There are many varieties of Kenpo and many varieties of Christianity. Does the type of Kenpo you practice have to align with your branch of Christianity?

For instance, is EPAK a Protestant thing? Is Tatum lineage Baptist and Planas Pentacostal? Is Tracy's a Catholic Kenpo? Is Nick Cerio's Kenpo Eastern Orthodox? What if you aren't a Christian? Would it no longer be Kenpo? For instance, if you learned Kenpo at a Buddhist temple, that wouldn't be "true" Kenpo anymore, right? What if you learned Kenpo from a Shaolin Monk, would it be Shaolin Kenpo? If you combined Jiu Jitsu with Kenpo, would you have to join Jews for Jesus?

Please discuss.

The whole issue is an ignorance thing, with it's traditional odor and all the usual buzzing flies. However, you can make a case for the following: we all took Kenpo out of fear of physical attack; some of us gravitate to other viewpoints out of the knowledge that we will soon cease to exist. Some of these folks feel compelled to align these two (and every other practice in life) resulting in one or the other stance being adulterated. Interesting thing is, this ignorance began soon after any wisdom found in any teaching, and long, long before anybody here was a twinkle in some equally clouded eye. It's all ignorance, from Zen being a "philosophy" to Jesus being entombed in Japan. (And here I thought that was Batman)

 

[Monadnock]

A martial art school should be that first and formost, otherwise it isn't. The religious underpinnings are up to the owner. Many Japanese dojo have a kamidana as there is a Shinto following in Japan and the term dojo has a little more depth than the American "studio." It is not there to convert people to Shinto, it is a symbol of past teachers and a focal point for the dojo, to say the least.

Nobody's asking if you go to a Shinto Karate School, or a Shinto Jo School. It's already engrained. It's a given there will be some sort of undertones of Shinto in the class, if it is claiming to be some sort of traditional Japanese dojo. In America, most of us know who Jesus is and some actually try to follow His teachings. I find it hard to understand the shock and awe of having to come to terms with a Christian martial arts school in America. If you don't like it - if Chrisitanity offends you, then don't train there.

Most people looking for a studio just want to learn how to hang onto their purse or eye gouge someone with their keys. They seek their spirituality elsewhere, and all the power to them.

 

[hongkongfooey]

While I agree Kenpo is not all rainbows and butterflies, you have to understand that to study kenpo is to better yourself. You improve your base, you improve your breathing, you improve your fitness, you improve your attitude, and you improve your logic. With these new found skills, you may Kill, protect, or improve others. Just because you can run people over with your car, doesn't make you the proud owner of a killer car. Its just a car. You own a car to improve your life.
Sean

Maybe your Kenpo is for self improvement, but mine is too help me through an attack if need be.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Jesus could have studied in Japan, as the cave where his body was placed for three days is in Japan now.

AoG

HUH? How so?