Chris Dorner No Excuses

[Tames D]

I'm just totally amazed that there is support for this coward/murderer. There is no justification for what he did.

 

[ballen0351]

Big difference between being pushed back inside and dormer exits back door is ordered to the ground with his hand out and he runs back inside to avoid capture.

 

[crushing]

I'm just totally amazed that there is support for this coward/murderer. There is no justification for what he did.

I haven't seen any support for him or justification for what he did. I have seen support for due process and the rule of law, as well as a disregard for the same.

 

[ballen0351]

I haven't seen any support for him or justification for what he did. I have seen support for due process and the rule of law, as well as a disregard for the same.

Plenty of fools were running around calling him a hero

 

[Tames D]

I haven't seen any support for him or justification for what he did. I have seen support for due process and the rule of law, as well as a disregard for the same.

Are we reading the same reports? They are calling this clown a ****ing hero.

 

[Makalakumu]

Doesn't mean im correct...i wasn't there. But im not jumping to conclusions.

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I'm not going to lose much sleep over this. Even if the LAPD decided to simply kill this guy, I can't say I'm totally against that. On the other hand, I can see the case of the civil libertarians. It's a troubling precedent in the times where we have the NDAA.

Tgace, lastly, the LAPD is a corrupt police force. There are lots of cities where the cops are little more than thugs. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, New York, from my experience cops in these cities have a completely different attitude. I've gotten screamed at for asking directions.

The corruption exists and it's really bad with the LAPD. I can understand why this story struck a cord with the community.

 

[Makalakumu]

Without knowing what the tactical situation was all you have is an infowars article and a predisposition to believe anything to do with conspiracy.

When you have a killer (very recently reproven) barricaded, shooting at you...you are there to solve the tactical problem. They called for him to surrender. He refused. They "cold gassed" him...nothing. They breached the structure and received fire. They hot gassed the structure ("burners"...they burn the agent for higher volume dispersion) and apparently Dorner decided to plug himself vs surrender.

Any assumption that they were going to kill Dorner vs let him surrender is evidence of people making unsubstantiated assumptions based on what they watched on "The Shield" or some other media based education.

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The quotes are directly from police transmissions. "Let's burn this MFer!"

It's clear that they were just going to kill the guy.

 

[Tames D]

The quotes are directly from police transmissions. "Let's burn this MFer!"

It's clear that they were just going to kill the guy.

Like he did to his victims? Not sure what your problem is with this. How do you think Monica Quans parents feel right now? How would you feel if someone murdered your daughter?

 

[Makalakumu]

Like he did to his victims? Not sure what your problem is with this. How do you think Monica Quans parents feel right now? How would you feel if someone murdered your daughter?

I'd want to burn that mother****er. To tell the truth, on an emotional level, I don't have a problem with it. I think the end result is exactly what Dorner deserved. As a citizen, I am disturbed by several things.

I have a problem with the police putting pressure on the media to STFU and white wash everything. The government does that too much already and we would be much better served by just being open to the public. I understand why an agency like the LAPD would need to white wash it's image. This is not a group of white hats.

http://www.alternet.org/why-lapds-hunt-dorner-indefensible

Bradley told me in 1981 that he asked Police Chief Ed Davis to explain why 300 officers were assigned to rooftop and perimeter patrols at police divisions (called precinct houses in most cities). Davis said police needed protection from armed criminals, citing an infamous incident in the mostly black South Central area where several people stood up at a meeting and urged killing officers.
Years later it came out that those urging attacks on police were all undercover officers, part of a massive worldwide LAPD spying operation in which some officers posed as leading communists and radicals for two decades, including officers in Havana and Moscow. (Doubters are invited to read “Chief: My Life in the LAPD,” by the late Daryl F. Gates, especially pages 72 and 231, as well as my articles about LAPD spying, brutality and mismanagement in the Los Angeles Times in 1980 until early 1983.)

I also have a problem with the State killing people. I think we need to reserve our highest levels of skepticism for these situations and never take them at their word. We can't have the kind of government the Founding Fathers wanted if people simply kowtow and bootlick every person dressed in a uniform. We especially cannot relax our vigilance in the land where the NDAA is law, in the land where an American citizen was openly murdered for his speech, in the land that operates torture dungeons and extra judicial prisons. Our Constitutional protections are toast. We can't afford to simply take the State's word for anything, IMO.

In the end, Dorner is a bad guy AND the institution is broken. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

 

[ballen0351]

The quotes are directly from police transmissions. "Let's burn this MFer!"

It's clear that they were just going to kill the guy.

Even if that were true which I don't believe it is. I thought that was a recording of a cop yelling that. But if it was on the radio it wasn't said by anyone actually involved in the tactical planning of the incident. The swat guys all have an encripted radio so they can communicate without others hearing the transmission. That was done idiot street cop that was standing on the outskirts making sure the press stay behind the line. Most other cops can't even listen to the channel that tactical guys are using.
Secondly I believe it wasn't even LAPD that did this operation it was the sheriff department.
3rd having been on a SWAT team for many years I can tell you that they are not that emotional. You have to go into almost robot mode and do your job. You let emotions creep in and that's how you or your team get hurt. These guys had an objective to complete and had he came out with his hands up yelling I give up he wouldn't have been killed. A professional SWAT team is not a bunch of trigger happy hillbillies looking to settle the score.
Lastly After the house caught on fore Dorner shot himself instead of just walking out and giving up. That's a HUGE difference then dropping a bomb on a citizen who didn't even get the opportunity to surrender. Corner had many chances to end this peacefully he choose is fate.

 

[ballen0351]

I'd want to burn that mother****er. To tell the truth, on an emotional level, I don't have a problem with it. I think the end result is exactly what Dorner deserved. As a citizen, I am disturbed by several things.

I have a problem with the police putting pressure on the media to STFU and white wash everything. The government does that too much already and we would be much better served by just being open to the public. I understand why an agency like the LAPD would need to white wash it's image. This is not a group of white hats.

http://www.alternet.org/why-lapds-hunt-dorner-indefensible

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I also have a problem with the State killing people. I think we need to reserve our highest levels of skepticism for these situations and never take them at their word. We can't have the kind of government the Founding Fathers wanted if people simply kowtow and bootlick every person dressed in a uniform. We especially cannot relax our vigilance in the land where the NDAA is law, in the land where an American citizen was openly murdered for his speech, in the land that operates torture dungeons and extra judicial prisons. Our Constitutional protections are toast. We can't afford to simply take the State's word for anything, IMO.

In the end, Dorner is a bad guy AND the institution is broken. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

The media wasn't told to hush. They were told to stop tweeting real time what they were seeing. Tweeting stuff like wow 2 snipers are set up on the left side of the house puts people in danger. You don't know if dorner is inside reading all that. If he is He now knows everyone's movements and being a former cop he can plan whats going to happen next with that info.
Even of they were asking the press to white wash stuff doesn't mean they had to listen. And the fact the press was even there is more evidence had he just given up they wouldn't have killed him.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm not going to lose much sleep over this. Even if the LAPD decided to simply kill this guy, I can't say I'm totally against that. On the other hand, I can see the case of the civil libertarians. It's a troubling precedent in the times where we have the NDAA.

Tgace, lastly, the LAPD is a corrupt police force. There are lots of cities where the cops are little more than thugs. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, New York, from my experience cops in these cities have a completely different attitude. I've gotten screamed at for asking directions.

The corruption exists and it's really bad with the LAPD. I can understand why this story struck a cord with the community.

Being rude about asking directions does not make a department corrupt. I've yelled at people for asking directions to. If I'm in the middle of something important like a traffic stop or some other type of call and you pull up stop in middle of road and start blocking traffic to ask me a stupid question I'll yell at you too.

 

[crushing]

Plenty of fools were running around calling him a hero

Are we reading the same reports? They are calling this clown a ****ing hero.

Who are "they"? If I google the words dorner and hero, I find plenty of articles that say Dorner is not a hero, but I can't find specific people that these articles are arguing against. It's always the mysterious they. About as specific as the authors get is liberals. That makes sense in this political climate. I guess I see what the authors are trying to do.

 

[ballen0351]

Who are "they"? If I google the words dorner and hero, I find plenty of articles that say Dorner is not a hero, but I can't find specific people that these articles are arguing against. It's always the mysterious they. About as specific as the authors get is liberals. That makes sense in this political climate. I guess I see what the authors are trying to do.

People are the they. There are several pro dorner Facebook pages one had over 20k likes. Reading comments on dorner stories plenty of people were calking him a hero. There were plenty of dorner hero hash tags on twitter. Has nothing g to find with liberal or politics for me just a bunch of stupid people

 

[crushing]

People are the they. There are several pro dorner Facebook pages one had over 20k likes. Reading comments on dorner stories plenty of people were calking him a hero. There were plenty of dorner hero hash tags on twitter. Has nothing g to find with liberal or politics for me just a bunch of stupid people

Ah, anonymous interwebz trolls trying to get a rise out of others in comments sections and on Facebook. I've read a lot of crazy comments on various stories. Every once in a while there is a gem of humor or a good point made in the comments section, but it's not worth it to sort through the snark and nastiness anymore.

 

[Drasken]

The sad fact is that people are generally stupid. Unfortunately a lot of people are getting behind this psycho as and making him out to be some martyr. Is there corruption in the LAPD? I'm sure there is. There's corruption everywhere. But we can't judge all the cops based on the actions of a few. Just like I'm sure most of the people supporting this nut happen to be left wing, but it can't and shouldn't be placed on all liberals as a whole.
I personally know many Socialists in my area that heard that he was killed and their reply was "Good, he was a rabid dog that needed to be brought in or put down before more people got hurt or worse."

I have also heard that cops in the LAPD opened fire on a vehicle fitting the description of Dorner's vehicle. If this is true, it was wrong as well, and likely a reaction of fear against an armed psycho that was targeting law enforcement. This doesn't mean all cops in the LAPD are bad or would have reacted that way.
My grandfather was a police officer, and I know if he ever had evidence of corruption and felt the need to do something he would have taken the evidence through proper legal channels, not grab a gun and go on a rampage.
The police followed proper proceedure and it ended badly. It happens.

Also this martyring a psycho is sad but not unique. There are fan clubs, some larger than others, devoted to serial killers and other mentally unstable individuals of all shapes and sizes.
As for the news, sadly it's all about ratings it seems. "Spin the story how they want to hear it and they will watch" seems to be the new mantra.
It's sad and a little disgusting. That's why I watch the news from left and right wing sources and estimate the truth is probably in the gray area in the middle.

Just my opinion.

 

[Tgace]

I'm not going to lose much sleep over this. Even if the LAPD decided to simply kill this guy, I can't say I'm totally against that. On the other hand, I can see the case of the civil libertarians. It's a troubling precedent in the times where we have the NDAA.

Tgace, lastly, the LAPD is a corrupt police force. There are lots of cities where the cops are little more than thugs. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, New York, from my experience cops in these cities have a completely different attitude. I've gotten screamed at for asking directions.

The corruption exists and it's really bad with the LAPD. I can understand why this story struck a cord with the community.

LAPD didn't kill him. The cabin wasn't in LA.

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[MJS]

Only if they had the option to bring him to justice without putting themselves in danger. Nobody will miss a ****ed up dirtbag, so will anyone really care about due process in this case?

IMO, Dorner most likely would not have just tossed up his hands and surrendered, therefore, his way was suicide. He was either going to get into a firefight and force them to kill him, or take the route that he did...blow his head off.

 

[MJS]

That's all I was saying above. If Dorner was really concerned about corruption, there were lots of better ways to handle this. In the end, he became just as bad as what he accused the LAPD of doing.

I agree.

That said, I would be very wary of excusing the LAPD of corruption. I think the only reason he has attained any notoriety is the fact that the fact that the LAPD IS so openly corrupt and everyone knows it. Dorner's manifesto struck a nerve with that community...

Oh, I'm not saying they're all alterboys, and I think corruption can be seen in alot of PDs. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing Dorners track record with the LAPD. Was this guy squeeky clean or did he have some skeletons in his closet?

 

[Tgace]

The media wasn't told to hush. They were told to stop tweeting real time what they were seeing. Tweeting stuff like wow 2 snipers are set up on the left side of the house puts people in danger. You don't know if dorner is inside reading all that. If he is He now knows everyone's movements and being a former cop he can plan whats going to happen next with that info.
Even of they were asking the press to white wash stuff doesn't mean they had to listen. And the fact the press was even there is more evidence had he just given up they wouldn't have killed him.

Exactly. Cutting off media in SWAT operations is only good common sense. Why would you want the BG to have the opportunity to see what you are doing?

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