Choosing a MA

[MikeV]

Hi guys,

I'm 21 right now, and for a while now I've been wanting to study a MA for a few reasons: 1) Be in better control of my body 2) Self-defense and self-confidence 3) Fitness and health.

I'm not thinking of competing, just honing the craft and enjoying myself.
My dad did 3 years of Karate in the late 70s when he was in Russia, so he told me that I should study Karate.

After a bit of research and talking to people, I was told that in Karate you have to study for a long time in order for it to be practical on the street or for actual self-defense, can anyone chime in on that?

I've looked at Bujinkan, but I see that lots of people are saying that it's not really as effective as other forms. I've looked at Aikido, but I am looking for something a bit more aggressive

I'm a novice, so I'd really like your honest opinion on what MA would fit the description (practical, still effective, etc...).

Thanks!

 

[jarrod]

one of my favorite things about martial arts is trying new ones. just tour around the various schools near you, watch or try it out, & see what you like.

jf

 

[Sukerkin]

I know that at first sight this might not see like very useful advice, Mike but in the broad sweep of things {no pun intended } there is little to choose between most of the traditional arts in terms of effectiveness.

It largely comes down to the student and the teacher whether an art is 'effective' for the needs of a given individual. This is because, when all is said and done, each style is an amalgum of various reflex ingrained techniques to be used as the need arises. Different techniques 'suit different people to some extent but the big difference in training will be how the approach to passing on the style is structured.

So, in practical terms, have a look around your 'catchment area' and see what is available. It is also hard to overestimate the importance of 'try before you buy'. Take a few lessons at a school that takes your eye and see if it 'feels' right for you. That might not sound very important but trust me, it really is. Persisting with a school that's like Cobra Kai when what you really want is more like Mr. Miyagi and you either wont stick it or you won't learn as fast or as well as you could.

 

[MikeV]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys.

Do you really think that I could have the right just by taking a few lessons? AFAIK you usually need to be involved for the long haul to get any practicality out of it, so I'm not sure how that will really help me decide which MA is best. For example, I could either be impressed by some pyrotechnics that don't mean much, or not see anything spectacular and get wrongly disappointed.

My father tells me that it does take quite some time to be effective in Karate because you need to work on your techniques for a long time so that they become like a second nature. This bothered me, but I probably need to have more patience, so I'm not afraid of that.

I'm looking for people who are practicing for a few years that could give me a direction, because right now I don't even know where to start

Btw, it would be nice if the MA also taught how to defend yourself against armed attacks (sticks, knives, guns).

 

[Sukerkin]

It's best not to go into martial arts with too many misconceptions, Mike.

Some arts, particularly those that have sprung up in recent times, make some claims with regard to defences against armed attacks that are best taken with a pinch of salt. Training can give you some chance of success, measured in terms of coming out the other side alive, but it is not a 'shield of steel'.

Also, patience is very much a requirement in training of any sort, particularly that which requires the building of muscle memory. You can learn enough of the basics of an art to be able to do a half-decent block or punch in not too many months but that is far from making a person a 'fighter'. Three to five years is a reasonable time frame to be looking at to learn an art well enough to be able to put it into practice in the 'wilds' with a degree of competence.

That is because a large part of training is the development of your own sense of situational awareness. In a one-on-one confrontation with minimal obstructions and good footing, any art will equip you well enough to at least fight back much sooner than that but an important facet of martial arts is learning to 'read' a situation. It is far better to see a problem coming and avoid it than to have to punch your way out of it.

Sadly, a school that will teach you that mental component on top of the physical techniques is getting harder to find as commercialism has taken hold in the MA's and 'volume throughput' of students has become much more important than it should be.

As to whether a few lessons can give you enough of a clue to make a choice on, well, that can indeed be so. What you are looking for is how the school, class and teacher 'feel' to you. The art in and of itself is not a primary concern when you're strating out. It is whether the learning environment will encourage you to train and progress; because if it won't then what the art is doesn't matter in the slightest.

Some minor idea as to what art you'll suit comes from your body type. If you're wiry and fast then one of the Kung Fu styles might be good. If you're long limbed and flexible, then perhaps aikido. If you're strong and stable on your feet, then maybe karate. But these are just cliched architypes. Within certain limits, anyone can learn anything, it's just that some arts speak to some strengths more than others.

 

[hpulley]

Karate gives you excellent self defense skills. Different schools and teachers will have more or less emphasis on self defense so your best bet is to try out a few dojos. Most will give you a free intro class and a cheap startup deal for a month or three; I'd avoid schools which don't offer you a cheap package to get to know them.

To do karate properly takes time but this is true of every system. Ones which claim to make you a master at self defense in three sessions or guarantee you a black belt in five years are not being honest with you. Some students learn slower than others (like me, I find I have to go several times a week to pick stuff up that some other students pick up in one class a week) but with time and perseverence you'll get results. Many systems have come and gone but karate is a refinement of older Chinese and Okinawan systems plus Japanese and now western influence as well so it isn't just an old system, it is a modern one with good classical roots.

I suggest you try out some karate schools, judo and aikido, krav maga, etc. and see what feels right but note that judo and aikido with so much emphasis on throws are tough to evaluate in a short time. Until you learn to break fall properly you can't do much in them which is frustrating. In some aikido schools you just do break falls for months until you get them right which put me off but in truth it is better to do this than to start being thrown and injured which will really put you off (like happened to me in judo). Personally I found that karate eases you into it better than judo; karate has throws and break falls in it too but since that isn't all it has, I found it both better for a beginner and more well rounded. Judo isn't that useful for self defense really, it is a sport. Sure, the whole system has strikes and blocks in it but here the schools just wanted to teach me sport judo which doesn't tell you how to even block a punch.

Karate teaches you knife defense but I don't know about guns. Unless you are really close there isn't much you can do about an attacker with a gun.

 

[pgsmith]

I think you've been given some excellent advice, but I want to throw in a couple of extra cent's worth for you to think about. Don't buy the hype! That's the single most important thing to remember when starting out on your martial arts lifestyle. Various schools, books, and movies will throw all sorts of ideas about what a martial art should and should not be. Self-defense, weapons disarms, ground fighting, multiple opponents, etc ... it's all pretty much irrelevant when you get right down to it. I've been involved in martial arts for quite some time, and I've lived in some pretty bad parts of some questionable cities. It has been my experience that, unless you are working in law enforcement, the biggest self-defense features that any martial art will teach you are situational awareness, and panic control. Pretty much every violent encounter I've witnessed (and I've seen more than a few!) have been because someone either wasn't paying attention and got into a bad situation, or panicked and caused a tense situation to go bad. With those two simple things, you can handle just about anything that is ever likely to happen to you. Those also happen to be basic teachings of any decent martial arts school. This is why Sukerkin said that finding a school that you liked and so would be able to go to regularly was a very important consideration. Find out what all is in your area, and try a class in each one. If one feels like a great place to be, that's the one you should pursue!

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Andrew Green]

I'm a novice, so I'd really like your honest opinion on what MA would fit the description (practical, still effective, etc...).

Thanks!

Forget about which art is practical and which isn't. It's got little to do with that, and far more to do with how the person teaching it is actually teaching.

Although one of the oddities about martial arts is that often those that make the biggest "practicality" claims, are actually doing some of the least practical stuff out there.

Plus at the end of the day, practicality rarely keeps anyone training. Martial arts is a hobby, or a sport. People do it because they enjoy doing it, even though some say otherwise. If it stopped being enjoyable, they would stop doing it. If it continued being enjoyable, without being practical they probably would still do it.

So look at what you want to do, do you want to wrestle? Punch? Kick? All of the above? Do you want lots of sparring? If so what sort?

The most effective system for anyone is going to be the one they would stick with, so pick something you think you would want to stick with.

 

[Brian S]

Not alot to add to what everyone else has said. It's been great advice! I just wish this type of advice was so freely given about 20yrs ago,lol!!

I would look at your local schools and see where you think you'd fit in best. Try to get the style thing out of your head. Stay away from the mcdojo's like ATA and such and just get started!

BTW, In any style you will need TIME to develop a good foundation. It's hard work and it doesn't come overnight. That's the secret behind martial arts.

 

[MikeV]

So look at what you want to do, do you want to wrestle? Punch? Kick? All of the above? Do you want lots of sparring? If so what sort?

Punching, kicking, throwing is what I'm looking for, wrestling is not that important. I think that Karate might be a good choice for me, no?
There are also lots of Bujinkan dojos here in Israel. Is anyone familiar with the guys at the AKBAN school? I dunno much about Bujinkan....

I live in Israel by the way I'm gonna see which dojos there are in the area and how good they are.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone for chiming in with their great advice!

 

[Cirdan]

I'm 21 right now, and for a while now I've been wanting to study a MA for a few reasons: 1) Be in better control of my body 2) Self-defense and self-confidence 3) Fitness and health.

I'm not thinking of competing, just honing the craft and enjoying myself.

I started training at 27 with pretty much the same reasons you have listed. I settled on traditional Wado Ryu Karate and (after shopping around a bit) Ju Jutsu. Both are great arts with a lot of technical depth and very good for self defense with the right instructor.

Take your time and check out what is available, the instructor is more important than the art in many cases.

 

[MikeV]

I have gone to a few dojos, and I loved this Goju-ryu place which happens to be very close to my house: http://www.karateisrael.co.il/en/home.php

Man, I feel so embarassed, I'm so unflexible and clumsy My punches and kicks have tension in them, I hope this does improve!

If anyone has got any tips for me or a good Goju resource that covers the basics (stances, movement, kicks, punches), please advise!

 

[pgsmith]

Man, I feel so embarassed, I'm so unflexible and clumsy My punches and kicks have tension in them, I hope this does improve!

Don't worry, and don't be embarrassed. Some people pick things up naturally, and others take longer. Both types will get to the same place, and those that struggle will usually be better in the end than those that don't. If you have to fight to get something correct, the increased emphasis while you're trying to get it right will give you a deeper understanding.

I was watching a Toyama ryu seminar with a senior instructor from Japan several years ago. He was chuckling at one fellow that was simply horrible, and was struggling hard to try and do what was asked. Through the interpreter, he said to me that he's glad to see someone fighting that hard, because that means he'll be a good instructor in 15 or 20 years!

 

[hpulley]

Don't worry, and don't be embarrassed. Some people pick things up naturally, and others take longer. Both types will get to the same place, and those that struggle will usually be better in the end than those that don't. If you have to fight to get something correct, the increased emphasis while you're trying to get it right will give you a deeper understanding.

I was watching a Toyama ryu seminar with a senior instructor from Japan several years ago. He was chuckling at one fellow that was simply horrible, and was struggling hard to try and do what was asked. Through the interpreter, he said to me that he's glad to see someone fighting that hard, because that means he'll be a good instructor in 15 or 20 years!

That's exactly right! If you have a hard time picking it up and hit stumbling blocks along the way you'll be able to help others through it. If you did it with ease from the start you'll probably just expect others to simply pick it up too which is very frustrating for the slower students among us (I usually have to see things many times to get it though occasionally I find a kata that just flows naturally).

 

[Koshou911]

I know that at first sight this might not see like very useful advice, Mike but in the broad sweep of things {no pun intended } there is little to choose between most of the traditional arts in terms of effectiveness.

It largely comes down to the student and the teacher whether an art is 'effective' for the needs of a given individual. This is because, when all is said and done, each style is an amalgum of various reflex ingrained techniques to be used as the need arises. Different techniques 'suit different people to some extent but the big difference in training will be how the approach to passing on the style is structured.

So, in practical terms, have a look around your 'catchment area' and see what is available. It is also hard to overestimate the importance of 'try before you buy'. Take a few lessons at a school that takes your eye and see if it 'feels' right for you. That might not sound very important but trust me, it really is. Persisting with a school that's like Cobra Kai when what you really want is more like Mr. Miyagi and you either wont stick it or you won't learn as fast or as well as you could.

Very well said! really like and agree with your last point (Miyagi vs Cobra Kai) it is really more important to find the right Sensei/instructor vs the "right" martial art because only with the right instructor can you truly learn.


I take 2 different styles of JJ where there is huge overlap because of one of my sensei's origins in the other style (long story short Style B is made up of many techniques from style A) My sensei's are very good at teaching me in a way that is fun, but at the same time things stick. If I dont get a technique I have to do it a million times till I get it right, for a lot of people this would get frustrating, but not with me. My senseis teach me in such a way that there is a lot to be proud of when I do get the technique right and they also mix it up a bit (different approaches to, and different variations of the technique) so that I can learn the technique in a way that better matches my body type, flexibilty etc.


So in a nutshell my advice is to find a teacher that you like and learn what he teaches vs finding a martial art that you like and go with someone that teaches it.

 

[Koshou911]

I have gone to a few dojos, and I loved this Goju-ryu place which happens to be very close to my house: http://www.karateisrael.co.il/en/home.php

Man, I feel so embarassed, I'm so unflexible and clumsy My punches and kicks have tension in them, I hope this does improve!

If anyone has got any tips for me or a good Goju resource that covers the basics (stances, movement, kicks, punches), please advise!

hahahahah if you think you are bad you should have seen me a year ago. I am not saying I can go out and win championships etc (actually far from it) but after a year with 2 very excellent senseis I can honestly say my flexibility and precision has gone up a few 100 percent.

dont ever be embarrassed because no one started with a black belt around their waist and no 2 people are alike.

As for your request for a good resource, there is no better resource than a good instructor.

 

[searcher]

There is some great advice that has been given. Only thing I will say is just find a school and go for it. The great thing is that if you don't like it or if it is not exactly what you are looking for, you can go somewhere else. Try out several if you want, just don't do what we have seen here time and again, the waiting for months and years trying to decide on a style. That is time you could be spending getting some skills.

 

[GBlues]

Yeah alot of good advice on here, but if I may I would like to add one other thought. You said that you don't want to be caught up in the flashy stuff, or the hype type things that many times can be found in some martial arts schools. My suggestion would be to make a couple of appointments, and take your dad with you. Since he has some previous martial arts experience he should be able to help you make a good decision. That would be my advice. I would even go to several different styles, and the two of you could watch, or even take a free half-hour class, some schools offer those, and it's very telling of an instructor. It's more personal and you can kind of get a feel on there philosophy and what there all about. I think a friend or family member that has studied martial arts before that has your best interests at heart will help in your decision personally. I hope that this helps.:asian: