Help me choose a new MA.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Again you have come across or seen some inaccurate information/demonstration of karate

Let me guess, there was a guy in a horse stance and doing a punch from the hip

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Here is the URL to my website:

http://www.geocities.com/ryushikan/

Is that your website or your schools? Ever thought of getting a private host and a domain if it's your school? I can get you a pretty good deal.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by moromoro
i dont think its a misconception just a comparison to other arts,

for example theres no way that a karateka is as fluid as a boxer or as fluid as a JKD practitioner
in comparison to these arts karate has the stiffest movements even the great bruce lee said that.

thanks

terry

I think I would, respectfully, say that your information is sorely lacking in regards to real, legitimate, living karate. Sure, the mini-mall brand of karate, the commercial, meal-ticket oriented method of instruction that keeps little kids occupied in between sports seasons and helps 50+ year olds get "back into shape" is certainly less than "fluid."

However.

The living karate that deals with realistic attacks (which, by the way, haven't changed in the past several hundred years, unless you are being attacked by a multi-limbed mutant or some space alien bent on world domination) at full speed is quite fluid and responsive. When I trained with RyuShiKan, never once did he assume a rigid, immobile stance and ask me to attack in a stiff, robotic fashion. We stood one arm length plus one fist away, and he just told me to come at him with whatever I had. When I got back up ( ), I realized just how responsive and fluid his reaction had been.

I think many JKD and arnis people are afflicted with the move-fast-pose-move-fast-pose disorder, where they move very fluidly and quickly during transition movements, but then stop for a split second while posing in a semblance of a strike position. I think that, for all their fluidity, they provide ample opportunity for an opponent to enter their openings with additional strikes... This is based on my limited experience, and is certainly not descriptive of all JKD and FMA people, but it is a more accurate portrayal of an observation than a broad sweeping generalization that all JKD and FMA people pose in between strikes...

You are correct in certain specifics, but your general statement is incorrect.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Let me guess, there was a guy in a horse stance and doing a punch from the hip

I think you are confusing a training drill that develops leg strength and shoulder endurace (while also providing the mind something to distract itself from the pain in the thighs from holding a deep horse stance) with real fighting techniques.

Sure, some schools think that amounts to fighting. I doubt any real karateka would deny that that falls short of what karate really is. However, I also believe they would step up to point out the flaw of thinking that training exercise is anything more than just that.

It is similar to Taijquan players thinking push hands amounts to fighting skill, FMAists thinking that trapping amounts to fighting ability, wrestlers thinking their ability to bridge will win them every single match or a boxer thinking his ability to smack a speed bag quickly will win him a fight. There is much more that goes into fighting skills that simple, disassociated drills. It appears that your view of karate may be, in part, based on just such an assumption.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by vin2k0
II would like to train in something more applicable to the street... a man attacking with a knife wouldnt usually lunge at you as if doing a leading-hand punch, however, this is the kind of attack we defend against.

Real martial arts train in things that are no less applicable against attacks "in the street" now than they were 200 years ago. Folks don't attack with knives, clubs, hatchets, machetes, sticks, crowbars, etc., any differently today than they did back then. Lots of MMA and eclectic MAists seem to think so, but it is just so much hype...

It sounds, however, that at some point in your style's development, they took an attack used to train a beginner in a safe manner, and mistook it for a real attack. If you want your training to be more realistic, as a senior student (you said 2nd dan), suggest to your head instructor that the attacks be changed to reflect a more realist and less safety conscious attack. If he refuses, then get a buddy and do it on your own. Find a way to make the techniques you already know (strikes, kicks, joint locks, throws) work against such attacks.

We have to go very soft when sparring against a partner or in any partner work other than on the pads... so i feel you cannot properly master blocking techniques when you aren't being attacked with full force.[

Why do you go softly?

You are correct - blocking a determined aggressor who throws a full power technique is much different than playing handsies and footsies with a willing, compliant partner. And pads just plain suck... I have never used them in all the years I have been training, and I'm just fine.

I feel that, because i have never been hit full force in the dojo, if it came to this outside i wouldnt have experienced it before and wouldnt react in the same way as if i knew what to expect? Maybe i am wrong, just a few of my concerns...

Two things -

One: Why have you never been hit for real? You need to be, both to know what it feels like, and to get over the natural fear of being hit/thrown/kicked. Eventually, that fear goes away completely, and it is at that point that you start getting to be dangerous. A person that is unafraid of allowing you to hit them becomes rather suddenly a force to be reckoned with, especially if they have the body composition that allows them to "suck up" more than a few techniques...

Two: Why haven't you just gotten a similarly minded dojo mate and had him ***** slap you a time or three? Training happens whenever and wherever, and really doesn't (especially at your level) require the supervision of your instructor. Get a friend, give him/her a beer, and have them punch the hell out of you. It does wonderful things for your understanding of martial arts.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

 

[moromoro]

i respest and love traditional karate

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
i respest and love traditional karate

That may be, but after reading your comments abot it I am wondering what you consider "traditional karate".

 

[moromoro]

goju by saiko shihan yamaguchi, and a lot of styles headed by their grandmasters in japan,

instructors who begin teaching in the west after no real experience are the ones that give karate a bad name

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
goju by saiko shihan yamaguchi,

To put it bluntly Yamaguchi’s Goju was over rated…….I saw it.
He didn’t earn the respect of many Okinawan Goju stylist either.
He was also a noted liar……..claiming to kill a tiger in Siberia… ….too bad or conveniently, depending on how you look at it, nobody can corroborate his story.

Originally posted by moromoro
and a lot of styles headed by their grandmasters in japan,

From my 15 years of rubbing elbows with all kinds of Karateka here in Japan I have yet to see “traditional Karate” in the Okinawan sense of the word. This includes working as a tournament official at JKF tournaments and being a Golden Member of the JKF for over 10 years.
I see a lot of “tippy tap tournament” type Karate and kata done for show not “GO”. Which is the main reason I resigned from the JKF.
What’s more I have yet to see a Japanese teacher of any rank that even knows of tuite like techniques, not to mention any sort of applicable knowledge of atemi or kyusho.
As a matter of fact I dropped a prominent karateka from a big organization here to his knees using a tuite technique from a kata because he claimed it was only an “Okinawan Bow”. Normally I wouldn't do such a thing but he was so high up on his horse when he was talking to us stupid “round eye” about Karate I thought he needed some sort of reality check.
Funny thing is the twit wouldn't make eye contact and avoided me and my students like the Bubonic Plague the rest of the time we were there.

Originally posted by moromoro
instructors who begin teaching in the west after no real experience are the ones that give karate a bad name

Anybody that teaches after no real experience gives karate a bad name……western or Japanese.

One problem that I and Pat McCarthy and others have noticed while teaching in Japan is the foreigners that through themselves at the feet of any Japanese instructor not matter how poorly they are trained and how low their skill level maybe.
They get this groveling simply because they are Asian and not because of their skill.
I call it “Yellow Fever”…….they want to play Qui Chang Caine (from the TV show Kung FU) or something.
This “Yellow Fever” hits them and they lose any sense of reality and common sense.

 

[moromoro]

what are you trying to say that the japanese cannot perform tradition karate and that okinawans are the only ones???

what do you think of the ashihara karate, kyokushin kai today under shokei matsu also shito ryu and the other karate stlyes based in japan or okinawa who would you rate as beign good and not so good


thanks

terry

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
what are you trying to say that the japanese cannot perform tradition karate and that okinawans are the only ones???

Japanese teach “Japanized Karate”….which for all intents and purposes is “Modernized Karate”. It lacks “gokui” or any sort of real “hidden” teachings. ( Japanese word pronounced heeden)


There are plenty of “good” karateka out there……..more than I could possibly mention.
Not all are from Okinawa either. So trying to “profile” me as thinking only Okinawans are deserving of respect won’t work.
I have met some Okinawans that were less than genuine.
Some of the best Karateka I know are from the west, many from the U.S..

Personally I think your interpretation as to what constitutes “traditional” might be different from mine.

 

[moromoro]

which organisations do you recommend

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
which organisations do you recommend

Why?
Are you planning on studying Karate?

 

[moromoro]

no just an interest on what people think to be the strongest organisations

i would however one day want to learn ryu kyu kobudo

thanks

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
no just an interest on what people think to be the strongest organisations

i would however one day want to learn ryu kyu kobudo

thanks

Look around I am sure you can find something.

 

[Bod]

A great way to learn how to defend against knife attacks is to get a friend to attack you in any way you or he can possibly think up, (including through the legs behind the back etc. absolutely anything) and concentrate on figuring out how to defend against the ones you are not comfortable with.

There are loads of Judo stories that go '...so I had to find a way of defeating this technique, and I spent months thinking about it until I came up with....'.

It's called research. It's tough, but it's real learning, and eventually you should be able to find a way to defeat anything given a reasonable amount of luck. I love this sort of practice, it just involves getting to class early and leaving late after spending time with like minded people.

 

[moromoro]

yes research is always an important part of MA training

RyuShiKan

which would you reccomend goju of higaonna sensei or goju kai of yamaguchi

not that i have an interest in practising karate but goju is very popular here in australia,

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
yes research is always an important part of MA training

RyuShiKan

which would you reccomend goju of higaonna sensei or goju kai of yamaguchi

not that i have an interest in practising karate but goju is very popular here in australia,

Higaonna Morio!
The man trains about 6 everyday from last I heard.
You might ask Mike Clarke, a member of this BBs, for the specifics since he trained with the man.

 

[moromoro]

yes he is the real deal,
is he okinawan???

 

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1


Why do you go softly?

You are correct - blocking a determined aggressor who throws a full power technique is much different than playing handsies and footsies with a willing, compliant partner.

Yep, thought so. However, don't agree with your comments on pads being useless. You may be just fine without one, but i think they help improve power, and show you how effective a technique can be if the correct factors are included.

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

Two things -

One: Why have you never been hit for real? You need to be, both to know what it feels like, and to get over the natural fear of being hit/thrown/kicked.

I have never been hit, simply because whereever possible i avoid violence. And so far have been lucky enough to calm down any situation that has arisen.

Originally posted by Yiliquan1


Two: Why haven't you just gotten a similarly minded dojo mate and had him ***** slap you a time or three? Training happens whenever and wherever, and really doesn't (especially at your level) require the supervision of your instructor. Get a friend, give him/her a beer, and have them punch the hell out of you. It does wonderful things for your understanding of martial arts.

Hmmm... maybe so, but doesn't sound all that appealing to me. Dont think i would actually like to have a full scale fight with a mate. Although im sure the experience would do me good, i dont think anyone would honestly want to take me up on an offer of a fight...