Chinese Wrestling

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't know anybody in this forum who has trained Chinese wrestling. Please comment on this clip. May be we can have some interested discussion.

 

[Unkogami]

That is very poor Judo.

I don't know anybody in this forum who has trained Chinese wrestling. Please comment on this clip. May be we can have some interested discussion.

That is pretty poor judo. There is a lot of value in Shuai Jiao, but that was poor judo and poor wrestling.

 

[Flying Crane]

My opinion: a lot more interesting than any judo or BJJ that I have seen. Granted, I haven’t seen a lot. But that is my impression.

Clearly it takes a different approach to engaging the grapple, than does judo or BJJ (from what Ive seen).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

One of the guys in my Sumo club has a Shuai Jiao background, but I haven’t seen him in a bit and haven’t had a chance to pick his brains on the topic yet.

He did lend me some instructional videos. I wasn’t too impressed with the instructor’s technique when demonstrating throws (compared to the quality of Judo and Western wrestling instructional video I have available), but I did like the series of exercises for training solo. I got sidetracked from practicing those, but I should start those back up.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I like Shuaijiao, it is not pretty, but it tends to be effective, and one should note, they rarely, if ever, train on a mat like Judo of Aikido

Should also note that virtually every Chinese Martial Art has Shuaijiao in it to varying degrees.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The one technique I saw in the video which I haven't practiced in other grappling systems is that first one - pulling on the opponent's right collar with your left hand and blocking their right knee with your right hand. Sort of like a cross between a tai otoshi and a knee tap. I'd be curious to learn how high percentage of a move it is and what details are necessary to make it work well.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The biggest difference between Shuai Jiao and Judo is that the former, because of its history, really predates modern physics, so Kano had the advantage of actually being able to refine techniques under that lens, whereas Shuai Jiao contains a lot of Qing dynasty material that was a bit more physical.

Judo operates on precise ideas of motion and efficiency, SJ is more like folk wrestling, whatever works, works. And it does.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The biggest difference between Shuai Jiao and Judo is that the former, because of its history, really predates modern physics, so Kano had the advantage of actually being able to refine techniques under that lens, whereas Shuai Jiao contains a lot of Qing dynasty material that was a bit more physical.

Judo operates on precise ideas of motion and efficiency, SJ is more like folk wrestling, whatever works, works. And it does.

Historically speaking Shuaijiao is possibly the oldest martial art on the planet, it allegedly comes from jǐao dǐ which was first mentioned in the Zhou dynasty. But it is suspected to be much older

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The one technique I saw in the video which I haven't practiced in other grappling systems is that first one - pulling on the opponent's right collar with your left hand and blocking their right knee with your right hand. Sort of like a cross between a tai otoshi and a knee tap. I'd be curious to learn how high percentage of a move it is and what details are necessary to make it work well.

That's called "hand block". Usually you will use your leg to deal with your opponent's leg. Sometime when you do that, your opponent will step over. You then use your hand to control his knee.

Most of the time, you let your hand to do your hand work, and let your leg to do your leg work. But sometime you may use your hand to do your leg work (such as single leg, double legs, hand block, ...).

 

[Oily Dragon]

Historically speaking Shuaijiao is possibly the oldest martial art on the planet, it allegedly comes from jǐao dǐ which was first mentioned in the Zhou dynasty. But it is suspected to be much older

Jiao Li is from the Zhou.

Jiao Di is much older, as far back as 2700BC.

Our great ape ancestors developed wrestling millions of years ago.

The Chinese military decided it might be fun to do it with horned helmets around the time of the Yellow Emperor, according to records. By the time of the Zhou, they had lost the armor and kept the grips and throws.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is where the Chinese wrestling started. I believe people at that time didn't know how to punch yet.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jiao Li is from the Zhou.

Jiao Di is much older, as far back as 2700BC.

Our great ape ancestors developed wrestling millions of years ago.

The Chinese military decided it might be fun to do it with horned helmets around the time of the Yellow Emperor, according to records. By the time of the Zhou, they had lost the armor and kept the grips and throws.

Yup, but it is first written about in the Zhou Dynasty. Therefore showing as you said, it did not develop like Judo with the advantages of things like Physics.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is where the Chinese wrestling started.

And they don't train with padded floor mats either

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The biggest difference between Shuai Jiao and Judo is ...

The break fall is different.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The break fall is different.

View attachment 28117

I have noticed that, where Japanese martial arts tend to slap the mat with their hand, Shuaijiao tends to 'slap' with the side of the leg

 

[Oily Dragon]

Yup, but it is first written about in the Zhou Dynasty. Therefore showing as you said, it did not develop like Judo with the advantages of things like Physics.

If you know the legend of this dude, it helps to see why it took so long to write it down. When the Chinese armies were wrestling with horns 4,000 years ago, their writing had just been invented. It would take another 1500 or so to document a decent fighting system.

Cangjie - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org