Chi Sao- Crossing the bridge

[mook jong man]

You can always use punch to set up your grab.

Not too long ago, I met a very famous WC master (I train WC myself too).

- I punched him with my right hand,
- he blocked with his right arm (his forearm contacted with my forearm),
- my right hand slide down from his right forearm to his right wrist,
- my left hand moved to his right elbow,
- he ...

Not only my right hand could grab on his right wrist, my left hand could also control his right elbow. I used my punch to set up my wrist control. I don't just grab ...

Who was this so called very famous Wing Chun master ?
Give us a name.

Because I guarantee if you tried it on my late Sifu , he would have hit you before you even finished moving.

 

[Marnetmar]

You can always use punch to set up your grab.

Not too long ago, I met a very famous WC master (I train WC myself too).

- I punched him with my right hand,
- he blocked with his right arm (his forearm contacted with my forearm),
- my right hand slide down from his right forearm to his right wrist,
- my left hand moved to his right elbow,
- he ...

Not only my right hand could grab on his right wrist, my left hand could also control his right elbow. I used my punch to set up my wrist control. I didn't just grab ...

If I'm picturing this correctly, he should have been able to roll his elbow over your grab, even with your left hand on his elbow.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I'm picturing this correctly, he should have been able to roll his elbow over your grab, even with your left hand on his elbow.

I tried to use my left hand to "lift up" his right elbow, used my right hand to "push down" his right wrist, and tried to achieve an arm lock on him. If he rolled his elbow over my right hand wrist grab, that would help me. Instead, he dropped his right elbow down to against my lift force. My left hand let go his right elbow, slides to his right wrist, grabbed his right wrist, and free my right hand. This way, my free right hand can deal with his free left hand. My right hand then grabbed on his left wrist. I then used his left arm to press across on his own right am. Everything had happened with in 1/2 second.

 

[drop bear]

I assume this is a trick that helps your game not the one thing that breaks chi sau.

Of course you can counter it.

You guys approach this concept in a really weird way.

This about wrist grabs.

 

[futsaowingchun]

Well it's not quite as simple as just having forward force.
Its how that forward force is utilized.

In the video the small guy stays in Bong Sau making it easy for you as you creep up his arm.
In my lineage that loss of wrist contact would result in dropping straight back into Tan Sau and hitting through.

All it needs is a slight deviation of the wrist off centerline and they will open up that gap like a crack in a wall.

This is a teaching demo not a live chi sao match. I'm here to teach . I'm not doing it for real. I could do that to but what would be the point of that..I hear people say all the time I can do this I can do that..not so easy..

 

[geezer]

I'm having a hard time visualizing this exchange, and I'd ask if you could post a clip ...but it's still pointless. To sort out these kinds of questions, you really have to get the interested parties together and work it out physically. It's much more instructive and way less boring than hammering away on a keyboard.

 

[wtxs]

Buddha Hand Wing Chun main Chi Sao Concept called " Snake creeping up the bamboo" First time made available to the public..

By the way...first time made available to the public? I am cautious of ANYONE who claims they are harboring one of those mystical, mythical "ancient Chinese secrets."

Cut the man some slack ... he's referring to one of his Futsao linage WC concept.

Anyone having problem with the Futsao ways should be asking why they do what they do as compares to your linage. You can also point out the positive/negative as you would understand them in reference to your linage.

Futsao come on the forum to share HIS version of WC, if we can't an open mind and try to accept how he or other linage interpret their art, then we have no effective communication, this forum will degenerate into the likes of many others out there ... your choice ...

 

[wingchun100]

I have no problem with his lineage per se. I have problems with people claiming they have a "secret training method." That makes me suspicious, no thanks to all the charlatans out there.

 

[wtxs]

I have no problem with his lineage per se. I have problems with people claiming they have a "secret training method." That makes me suspicious, no thanks to all the charlatans out there.

I do understand what your are saying, I don't see Futsao had claim this "snake creeping up the bamboo" concept as you had pointed out an "secret training method" ... secret methods don't get eye balled by the public ... carry on ... with open mind ...

 

[wingchun100]

I do understand what your are saying, I don't see Futsao had claim this "snake creeping up the bamboo" concept as you had pointed out an "secret training method" ... secret methods don't get eye balled by the public ... carry on ... with open mind ...

What he wrote could be interpreted that way...something like "the first time being shared with the public."

 

[wtxs]

What he wrote could be interpreted that way...something like "the first time being shared with the public."

Agreed. However, what he had wrote above can also be interpreted in many other ways ... it all depend on the life experience of the particular reader.

Personally I don't see what he presented as anything but a different expression of an snake element, as with the "Bong" element, they are within the realm of different lineages of WC.

If you had figured a better way use an ..lets say an garn sao, and haven't seen anyone used that way before and you posted the video, you now will be the first to release that concept to the public ... will you get the same feed back as the OP? :hmm:

 

[wingchun100]

Agreed. However, what he had wrote above can also be interpreted in many other ways ... it all depend on the life experience of the particular reader.

Personally I don't see what he presented as anything but a different expression of an snake element, as with the "Bong" element, they are within the realm of different lineages of WC.

If you had figured a better way use an ..lets say an garn sao, and haven't seen anyone used that way before and you posted the video, you now will be the first to release that concept to the public ... will you get the same feed back as the OP? :hmm:

I wouldn't have phrased it that way. I would have said, "What do you guys think of this interpretation of..."

 

[wtxs]

I wouldn't have phrased it that way. I would have said, "What do you guys think of this interpretation of..."

Very good point. Anyone wish to share their particular way of training need to consider the way they present their material, such as what you've said above ... should put things in perspective.

 

[wingchun100]

Very good point. Anyone wish to share their particular way of training need to consider the way they present their material, such as what you've said above ... should put things in perspective.

When the only way you have to communicate are words on a page/forum, and people can't hear your tone of voice or see facial expressions, vocabulary is all you have...which makes it THAT much more important.

 

[wtxs]

When the only way you have to communicate are words on a page/forum, and people can't hear your tone of voice or see facial expressions, vocabulary is all you have...which makes it THAT much more important.

WC100, I'm glade we are on the same page. The kind of dialog we been having on this thread is what I'm referring to as effective communication ... with respect, without judgement, digs, negative put downs, etc. That is an huge factor why I like/stay on this forum, I visit others to be entertain by their chaos and bickering.

It's a given we will not agree with each other 100% on any thing ... but that's what makes us individually unique.

Now get back to more training! :whip:

 

[mook jong man]

This is a teaching demo not a live chi sao match. I'm here to teach . I'm not doing it for real. I could do that to but what would be the point of that..I hear people say all the time I can do this I can do that..not so easy..

You have a point there , often times a counter I have thought up seems feasible on paper , but has been found wanting when it came to realistic application.
You win some , you lose some , the truth always becomes apparent in the laboratory of chi sau.

But I am rather curious now as to what your method , or methods of recovery may be if the "Snake creeping up the bamboo" has failed.
Say for example the opponent has sensed your intention , and dropped straight back into Tan Sau and has started to move forward wedging the said Tan Sau past your "Creeping Snake " technique and is headed for your neck.

I have an idea of what I would do , but I would be interested in hearing what your tactics would be.

 

[futsaowingchun]

I have no problem with his lineage per se. I have problems with people claiming they have a "secret training method." That makes me suspicious, no thanks to all the charlatans out there.

please show me where I said This is "secret training method'' your full of ****..your making to much out of this.. I call you on your ********?? please provide your evidence other wise retract your statement...

 

[futsaowingchun]

What he wrote could be interpreted that way...something like "the first time being shared with the public."

this statement is correct..if you can prove me wrong then please provide me with the evidence.. I said nothing about secret.

 

[futsaowingchun]

You have a point there , often times a counter I have thought up seems feasible on paper , but has been found wanting when it came to realistic application.
You win some , you lose some , the truth always becomes apparent in the laboratory of chi sau.

But I am rather curious now as to what your method , or methods of recovery may be if the "Snake creeping up the bamboo" has failed.
Say for example the opponent has sensed your intention , and dropped straight back into Tan Sau and has started to move forward wedging the said Tan Sau past your "Creeping Snake " technique and is headed for your neck.

I have an idea of what I would do , but I would be interested in hearing what your tactics would be.

the answer is at 4:15-4:25 which is only one way. But to say what would I do i would have to chi sao with you then you would know. Every time is different. When I do "Snake creeping up" it;s not a technique,but a way of doing chi sao,so it can't fail.only a technique can fail. When I creep up your bridge you wont know it until its to late. because its a non threatening passive move. So this type of chi sao I believe is unique to my lineage,and this is only a peice of it not the whole thing.there is much more.

 

[Marnetmar]

please show me where I said This is "secret training method'' your full of ****..your making to much out of this.. I call you on your ********?? please provide your evidence other wise retract your statement...

I think we're done here.