changing the yearly focus in the Bujinkan

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

As far as the yearly themes/concepts are concerned, my personal view is that if you actually "get" what's being taught and want to teach it yourself, you should be able to express it through the medium of the kihon happo.

That's an interesting thing, whether or not people want to teach or just train for themselves...I can count on the fingers of my right hand the number of people I've trained with who actually have made an effort to EXPLAIN what they understand (or think they understand, but that's a different discussion) about the underlying concepts - most of the time, people do nothing more than to demonstrate what they've been taught technically, and leave it to everyone else to draw/jump to their own conclusions. I know which of these alternatives I prefer, but that's just me and I might be terribly wrong.

 

[Dale Seago]

I can count on the fingers of my right hand the number of people I've trained with who actually have made an effort to EXPLAIN what they understand (or think they understand, but that's a different discussion) about the underlying concepts. . .

Well, I could be wrong, but the impression I've gotten over the years is that Sensei's teaching is primarily about underlying concepts rather than about "techniques".

Which, by the way, is an important reason for not just training in Sensei's classes when you go to Japan. It's highly advisable to train with some of the shihan as well, as they're an important "bridge" to aid one's understanding of both the technical and conceptual aspects.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Well, I could be wrong, but the impression I've gotten over the years is that Sensei's teaching is primarily about underlying concepts rather than about "techniques".

Which, by the way, is an important reason for not just training in Sensei's classes when you go to Japan. It's highly advisable to train with some of the shihan as well, as they're an important "bridge" to aid one's understanding of both the technical and conceptual aspects.

I agree, and that's precisely what I did as well, but I'm still not sure if that answered my questions...oh well, guess I'm free to draw my own conclusions about that as well, eh?:asian:

 

[Cryozombie]

I agree, and that's precisely what I did as well, but I'm still not sure if that answered my questions...oh well, guess I'm free to draw my own conclusions about that as well, eh?:asian:

Personally I would like the explaination. I see so much that I look at with my
"Novice" eyes, and go "Why the hell..."

Maybe it comes with more experience, but having the why the hell questions answered would be nice.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Usually I'm content with asking "how do I do this" as opposed to "why do I do this", but given the "nutritional value" of my main instructors these days this is starting to change whenever I venture out of my own dojo.

 

[Don Roley]

It really annoys me when beginners nowadays get too caught up in all of that due to exposure to what I call "the Japan snobs" who don't bother trying to get people get a grasp of kihon beforehand.

I have heard from people that live in Japan and who have gone back to give seminars is that people will not show up to training if they hear that the basics are going to be taught. There are a lot of people with bad basics, but they don't bother to re-learn it once they think they know it and if someone shows them a correct way of doing things, they write it off as being just another variation.

One guy supposably starts off by teaching what Hatsumi is doing. Then he points out that people are not able to do it because of bad foundations and take a step back. Then he repeats until he gets to a level that they need. People get more out of the lessons, but they will not show up if they think basics are being covered. And they won't learn basics unless their noses are ground into the fact that they are lacking.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

What you describe wouldn't be a problem if people actually DID work hard to improve on their basics in regular training, of course. Sadly, that's not always the case. Certainly there's more to the basics to be found outside of one's regular dojo as well.Of course there's also a difference between "simple and crude" and "simple and sophisticated".

 

[Shinkengata]

Bujinkan training has been one of the few times in my life where i was content with spending all my time doing the same few things. We've had class before where we did nothing but the tsuki,keri, ukemi, and maybe jodan and gedan uke, and i was perfectly content, because i was getting some basics practice in under the supervision of my instructor. I believe that i am content with doing nothing but the basics simply because i know how bad my basics are and how much i need to work on them. Between class, my ego wants to swell a little, and each class acts as kind of a reminder of how much work i need to do.

 

[Kizaru]

This year's focus is "Gyokko ryu"...is anyone interested in starting a "Gyokko ryu thread" and sharing experiences?

 

[Bujin]

I´m the other way around, If I see an announcement for a seminar teaching basic gyooko ryu for example, I will definitely attend it. If its "roppo kuji", ", "Inyo", "tenchi" or the like I will most likely not.

Im actually getting a little scared realizing I do not know the "correct" basics after 16 years of training in Bujinkan. Dont get me wrong now, Ive seen plenty of "basics", only they change from teacher to teacher and from time to time. I believe I have done and seen somewhere between 7-10 different versions of Koku (first kata in Gyokko ryu) and Im not talking henka here...

Im actually prone to believe it´s due to lack of knowledge / misunderstandings that some do the basics in different ways. It reminds me somewhat of the bad kamae and bad blocks back in the 80-ties :-(

Im the first to admit I need to better my basics, but who will teach me?

Regards / Bujin

 

[rutherford]

Im the first to admit I need to better my basics, but who will teach me?

Regards / Bujin

Time for a trip to Japan?

Last night I received contradictory advice from uke several times as we switched partners. Each time, I thanked them for their advice and then tried the technique exactly as they had suggested and paid careful attention to where we ended up and what I felt I could do from that point without consciously saying, "This is best." Hopefully, I am developing the sensitivity to choose the movement that provides me with the best options should I find myself in need of performing the technique with full intensity.

However, if my training group included an instructor I would have asked for her input. I have been compiling lots of questions for the next time I get to visit my instructor.

 

[Bujin]

Rutherford,

Yes youre right. It is time for another trip to Japan. As soon as I collected enough money I will go. Perhaps this autumn. However, during my short stay I will hardly be able to pick up more than a few bits and pieces to the puzzle. I have to rely on those more fortunate than me to get correct teaching.

Best regards / Bujin

 

[DWeidman]

Im the first to admit I need to better my basics, but who will teach me?

Regards / Bujin

Originally Posted by rutherford

Time for a trip to Japan?

Japan is a long way to go for basics. Find someone you want to move like and trust their version.

Hatsumi has shown Koku several ways as well - each of them being "Kihon". The kata are really just that vague - so you are always left with interpretation...

Anywho...

-Daniel