Capoeira Kick

[pdg]

We're not disagreeing, if it's sufficiently slower, then yes less energy, but the point I was replying to was, that they found house kick would be harder, because the standing leg Is stronger than the resting arm doesn't hold true

Oh that much I entirely agree with.

If it was really about "borrowing force from the ground" (which in honesty is a phrase I hugely dislike) then my jumping turning kick (roundhouse) would have zero force.

Only it doesn't, it's pretty much equal to if I have the other foot on the ground.

Maybe it's my epic chi link transferring force from gaia and depositing it in my chakras for kicking? A bit like mystic wifi...

 

[jobo]

Oh that much I entirely agree with.

If it was really about "borrowing force from the ground" (which in honesty is a phrase I hugely dislike) then my jumping turning kick (roundhouse) would have zero force.

Only it doesn't, it's pretty much equal to if I have the other foot on the ground.

Maybe it's my epic chi link transferring force from gaia and depositing it in my chakras for kicking? A bit like mystic wifi...

With a jumping kick you have already taken the " force from the ground,, it's now stored as potential energy,

 

[pdg]

With a jumping kick you have already taken the " force from the ground,, it's now stored as potential energy,

If that were true, I could levitate.

 

[Flying Crane]

The figures in the video are pretty consistent, and clearly show that the speed of the TKD kick more than makes up for less mass compared to the cap. kick.

More mass is fine, but if it's sufficiently slower there's less energy.

It’s an apples to oranges comparison. They are different. They all work well when well trained and used appropriately. It is impossible to say that any one is objectively “better”.

 

[skribs]

It’s an apples to oranges comparison. They are different. They all work well when well trained and used appropriately. It is impossible to say that any one is objectively “better”.

That's why you find data points to support why one is more appropriate for a situation.

 

[pdg]

It’s an apples to oranges comparison. They are different. They all work well when well trained and used appropriately. It is impossible to say that any one is objectively “better”.

Indeed.

If you could make the cap kick travel at the same speed as the TKD kick, it would have more power due to a higher mass involvement.

Still wouldn't necessarily be any better or worse though.

It's also situational.

The karate guy's front kick - oh it's terrible, it lacks power...

But if you're in a narrow alley you're not going to fit a roundhouse in, much less that cap kick.

 

[Flying Crane]

That's why you find data points to support why one is more appropriate for a situation.

You think that’s appropriate in this context? You think you can scientifically study this to determine the maximum “best” technique for a given situation? Do you believe martial arts are that objective?

Is this what you believe?

 

[Flying Crane]

Indeed.

If you could make the cap kick travel at the same speed as the TKD kick, it would have more power due to a higher mass involvement.

Still wouldn't necessarily be any better or worse though.

It's also situational.

The karate guy's front kick - oh it's terrible, it lacks power...

But if you're in a narrow alley you're not going to fit a roundhouse in, much less that cap kick.

It really comes down to an individual’s skill with the given technique, and his ability to recognize a situation in which it can be useful, and then his ability to actually use it before the window of opportunity closes.

And very very likely it is not the only good option in any given situation. It is merely one of a number of viable options.

 

[jobo]

If that were true, I could levitate.

That's the nature of potential energy, you've only got it till gravity takes it back, which always happens sooner or later, unless you manage to jump in to orbit

 

[jobo]

It’s an apples to oranges comparison. They are different. They all work well when well trained and used appropriately. It is impossible to say that any one is objectively “better”.

Depends on the criteria, if harder is better for you then clearly some are c better than others, I think that it's ultimately moot, all four kicks will cause you great distress, the two round house kicks and the cap kick will cut you in half, it's fight over with any of tHem

 

[FriedRice]

Yea it's powerful, because it's a super, duper windup kick. Muay Thai's kick to the leg is not as powerful, but much, much faster....easier....and you can spam the hell out of it to cause damage and taking much less energy. If this Capoeira kick lands, yeah you're KO'ed but 10 MT leg kicks will probably land much easier and it shouldn't be more than 5 to cause significant damage.

If this kick works well, then you'd see it in the UFC, especially used by McGregor; because that's tens of millions of $$$$$$ on the line. McGregor does train Capoira style too...like Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc. they are very open to explore different styles to exploit in their fights. This Capoeira kick would probably fall under trickery and used very sparingly, like the Rolling Thunder.

We had a very big Capoeira program (being a gym owned by Brazilians), with like 20-25 students per class, 4x a week...when their top students come over to spar us in Muay Thai, they get destroyed pretty easily. Pressure fighting them is the key.

 

[jobo]

Yea it's powerful, because it's a super, duper windup kick. Muay Thai's kick to the leg is not as powerful, but much, much faster....easier....and you can spam the hell out of it to cause damage and taking much less energy. If this Capoeira kick lands, yeah you're KO'ed but 10 MT leg kicks will probably land much easier and it shouldn't be more than 5 to cause significant damage.

If this kick works well, then you'd see it in the UFC, especially used by McGregor; because that's tens of millions of $$$$$$ on the line. McGregor does train Capoira style too...like Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc. they are very open to explore different styles to exploit in their fights. This Capoeira kick would probably fall under trickery and used very sparingly, like the Rolling Thunder.

We had a very big Capoeira program (being a gym owned by Brazilians), with like 20-25 students per class, 4x a week...when their top students come over to spar us in Muay Thai, they get destroyed pretty easily. Pressure fighting them is the key.

Well they all have the problem that they are easier to land of they are not exspected, throwing yourself on the floor to start a fight is really not exspected, but your Opponent is unlikely to fall for it twice. That's doesn't change its effectiveness as a one off or that it's pretty can hard

 

[skribs]

You think that’s appropriate in this context? You think you can scientifically study this to determine the maximum “best” technique for a given situation? Do you believe martial arts are that objective?

Is this what you believe?

I believe the more you know about your techniques, the better you are at knowing when to use them.

If I'm trying to knock someone out I know the jab is about the weakest punch there is, so I probably wouldn't throw a jab. If know both the capoeira kick and a typical roundhouse kick, I think knowing that the roundhouse being stronger and faster is useful information to have.

I find it hard to believe someone can train the capoeira kick and not have a foundational understanding of a standing roundhouse.

 

[FriedRice]

Well they all have the problem that they are easier to land of they are not exspected, throwing yourself on the floor to start a fight is really not exspected, but your unlikely to fall for it twice. That's doesn't change its effectiveness as a one off or that it's pretty can hard

Man, your post is kind of unintelligible Can you rephrase?

 

[jobo]

Man, your post is kind of unintelligible Can you rephrase?

NO can't be arsed, I've got predictive text that runs away with its self, pick your way though it or dont, makes no difference to me

 

[Buka]

There's two Martial Arts I will never do, Monkey Style Kung Fu and Capoeira. Just because of the way they look. I'd rather dress up as a mime.

Foolish of me, I know. But don't care, rather be struck dead.

 

[drop bear]

Indeed.

If you could make the cap kick travel at the same speed as the TKD kick, it would have more power due to a higher mass involvement.

Still wouldn't necessarily be any better or worse though.

It's also situational.

The karate guy's front kick - oh it's terrible, it lacks power...

But if you're in a narrow alley you're not going to fit a roundhouse in, much less that cap kick.

If you were specifically looking at efficiency you could in theory use data to make a judgement though.

Not sure what would be the data I would need though.

Probably psi vs time it takes to do the kick vs the amount of effort it takes to throw.

In MMA we tend to try to shave those aspects down as much as we can.

 

[drop bear]

Man, your post is kind of unintelligible Can you rephrase?

You are both saying the same thing.

The higher percentage a kick is the more likely it is to work and therefore the more likely someone will train it and throw it.

But the higher percentage a kick is means the other guy is more likely to know how to defend against it.

So sometimes a low percentage kick is more likely to work.

 

[Flying Crane]

I believe the more you know about your techniques, the better you are at knowing when to use them.

If I'm trying to knock someone out I know the jab is about the weakest punch there is, so I probably wouldn't throw a jab. If know both the capoeira kick and a typical roundhouse kick, I think knowing that the roundhouse being stronger and faster is useful information to have.

I find it hard to believe someone can train the capoeira kick and not have a foundational understanding of a standing roundhouse.

Roundhouse kick is very common and a staple technique in capoeira. As is side kick, back kick, front kicks, Hook kicks, crescent kicks. Spinning kicks...

 

[skribs]

Roundhouse kick is very common and a staple technique in capoeira. As is side kick, back kick, front kicks, Hook kicks, crescent kicks. Spinning kicks...

So talking about the kick in the video and saying you can't compare to a roundhouse unless you train both is silly, because someone who knows that kick has trained both. It should be easy to compare.