Canadian Violence blamed on Americans...??

[Rynocerous]

Here is an appauling article that blew me away...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/


How can Canadians say that it is the Americans that are causing our increase in gun realted deaths. You can't point the finger at Americans, but you can point the finger at "criminals". It doesn't matter if they are American or Canadian. If they did stop the flow of illegal weapons coming in from the states, the "Canadian bad guys" would still find another way to get their hands on weapons. So I think that the media should get a reality check. We (Canada) are currently going throught the talks of a complete hand gun ban...if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. It WILL NOT decrease the crime, criminals will still be able to get their hands on these weapons. They won't say to themselves "hmm...there is a ban on hand guns so I shouldn't shoot this guy".

Hot issue with me... how do all of you MT viewers feel about this?

Cheers,

Rynocerous

 

[Andrew Green]

Well...

The weapons have to be made somewhere, most are American made.

Guns are a part of the US culture, at least some parts of it, particullarly the "Gansta rap" which is very influencial amoung certain segments.

Canadians are overwhelmed by US culture, movies, tv, music, etc. A very large chunk of that comes from the US.

Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns, yup. Good plan. If someone is carrying around a gun and has no valid reason, I'd like to see them have it taken away and sent to court.

All that said, I agree. We shouldn't blame our problems on the US. They our are problems, I can see why some might make that connection, and in a sense it might be there. But, our problems are ours, we should fix them, not blame them on others.

 

[jdinca]

The new world mantra "Guns don't kill people, Americans do!"

I consider this another political piece and give it just as much credibility as other articles of this nature, little to none.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns, yup. Good plan. If someone is carrying around a gun and has no valid reason, I'd like to see them have it taken away and sent to court.

What that means is if you outlaw guns only the good people who were not going to be a problem will obey it. The bad people who want guns will get them regardless of how many laws you pass. Were the guns used in that Toronto drive by legally owned? Maybe martial arts should be regulated, they do after all teach people how to hurt other people. Use an unregistered martial arts technique and go to jail!

 

[Andrew Green]

We can own guns up here, if we have a reason to. Target shooting is fine. No one needs to carry a gun around with them, and that is not allowed.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well it is common belief once you get outside of the USA that the USA is the cause of most of the world's problems.

We have it nice here, and we do not share it with others. Yet with free trade and openning of other markets jobs are leaving here, and going elsewhere, and people are upset about it. Look at Delphi and the UAW, as well as the Airplane Mechanics for issues within.

We force our beliefs and customs on others, so therefore all the negatives of the USA if found elsewhere are blamed on us. I worked with people from other countries. They complain about the violence here, and how dngerous it is. I then asked them about the numbers of deaths caused by colds and diseases and floods and earthquakes from the places they came from? Is that not more percentage of people dying because of those things. I also aksed for I know, "Why did you leave", Because the government was doig things I did not like. Why did you not stand up to them? The government were the only ones with guns. So you are saying the USA should get rid of its' guns as well so only to government will have guns? Most just look shocked and leave.

The USA has been the police force and the "extra" force that has helped and saved other parts of the world. They have loaned lots of money and have the "New" goverment not recognize the old government loans. Then we loan money to the new governments again, to "Stabilize" an area.

So the USA sets it self up to be the fall guy.

Now to the specifics, of Canada. I really wonder if all the guns are truly American Made or are they Chinese, or Czech, or Russian, or ...? Even if you can find the same model in the USA does not mean it was made in the USA.

No one here in the USA takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. It is teh Twinkies or the beatings of the parents or the neighbors or what ahve you that caused me to do what I did. I would really hate to see this sickness fall on my northern neighbors.

I mean we could blame the alcohol problems and crimes for drugs as such as the USA on Canada as when we had prohibition her in the States, most went over the border. So they moved back in after we allowed it back as we could not stop the movement of the Canadian alcohol south. Nevermind that some made they own issues, and the MoonShine clause that allowed for 200 Gallons for personal family use through the year. No this had ntohign to do with it, it was all the issue of the Canadians. Becuase with out alcohol we never would have moved forward to other drugs, including those from South America, that the States has even declared war upon these DRUGS.

It is always someone else's fault and problem.

No one wants to look at the issue of what causes the crime. That there is a certain percentage that almost never goes away, and as the overall population rises, and the percentage remains the same or even goes down the total number of cases will increase. With the better media coverage people on the east side of Canada in Nova Scotia can find out what has happened in Vancouver in moments.

So what causes the crime?

Lack of education? This leads to what made them leave the education system in the first place, and the Canadian system of education is good from my perspective, yet there is always somethign that might be better or an area to be looked at.

Income? I deserve more! or I WANT more! or I was making X and now I am making X-Y and with inflation it hurts even more. Is it the lack of paying jobs, or the lack of dcent paying jobs?

What is a decent paying job? Surely not Minimum wage?

Environment? being raised in abusinve evironment, or lack of social training?

Medical issues? People having chemical imbalances, or bankrupt due to medical cost? Oh wait the Canadian have a good coverage plan there as well, so that should not be an issue.

Taxation? People making a decent wage, but unable to progress with the American Dream of 2.5 cars, a boat, a dog, the nice house, and maybe a cabin for hunting or fishing or on a lake? Oh do not forget the cost of raising children. I have not seen this in the Canadians, I have seen people looking to have a nice townhouse or capecod or even an apratment for awhile and not worry about trying to build a McMansion (* 3k to 4,5K sq ft, with 3 to 4 car garage, or separate two car garage for the extra toys. *) The Canadian pay a higher taxation at elast in Ontario I know, then in Michigan, yet the services are greater.

So, I agree that it is the fault of the USA for all the violence in the USA. It has nothing to do with the individuals involved. It has nothing to do with maybe they are connected with Canadian organized crime? Or their own immagration connections? It has nothing to do with taking responsibilities for your actions, or looking at the societal causes of an issues. It si always easier to find a group of people and blame them for all of your problems.

Maybe Germany in the 30's comes to mind. The USA in the 1870's comes to mind. All the way back to when people were stating it as other peoples fault even for wearing blended material cloths.

So it maybe a part of the human condition to do this as history can find lots of examples.

I just had hoped that my Northern Neighbors had become more Civilized then our own country. And as they see the success of our politicians and how they blame it on this or that, I see other countries are now going to use this same model, which has its faults and is known to not work as well.

So, even though I started out with examples of blame, and then gave points of why it should not be, and then sarcasism to make a point, it is now time to argue back to that it is the fault of the USA. Not for the reasons as stated in the article, but because our flash and politician have shown them to give the people circuses and food to keep them happy, while the government does not have to deal with the real issues.

Still thinking on this subject.

 

[arnisador]

Well it is common belief once you get outside of the USA that the USA is the cause of most of the world's problems.

Yup.

We do it here too--blame the drugs on Colombia rather than on those in the U.S. who buy them.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Yup.

We do it here too--blame the drugs on Colombia rather than on those in the U.S. who buy them.

That's a pet peeve of mine, as well. Blame foreigners for our illegal drug use? What about our drug users? Do they have any responsibility in this?

 

[Cujo]

Of course it's our fault! Every bad thing that ever happened to anyone, at any time, at any place, is our fault. If we would just listen to everyone else's wisdom, we would be so much better off.

Pax
Cujo

 

[Andrew Green]

Yup.

We do it here too--blame the drugs on Colombia rather than on those in the U.S. who buy them.

Bingo, very same thing thats getting done here.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Here is an appauling article that blew me away...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/


How can Canadians say that it is the Americans that are causing our increase in gun realted deaths. You can't point the finger at Americans, but you can point the finger at "criminals". It doesn't matter if they are American or Canadian. If they did stop the flow of illegal weapons coming in from the states, the "Canadian bad guys" would still find another way to get their hands on weapons. So I think that the media should get a reality check. We (Canada) are currently going throught the talks of a complete hand gun ban...if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. It WILL NOT decrease the crime, criminals will still be able to get their hands on these weapons. They won't say to themselves "hmm...there is a ban on hand guns so I shouldn't shoot this guy".

Hot issue with me... how do all of you MT viewers feel about this?

Cheers,

Rynocerous

Well, when gun control fails, you have to have some scape-goat. You don't expect them to acknowledge it's a failed policy do you? In Canada they blame the US, in the Great Britain, they blame eastern Europe. I'm not sure who Austrailia is blaming, but I bet they have somebody.

Inanimate object control people always have to have someone to blame when their plans to control inanimate objects don't translate in to changes in behavior of people.

Disarming the population only ensures that criminals have a monopoly on firearms ownership. We see this in Canada, we see this in Great Britain, where, since the outright gun ban, there are now MORE guns in Britain than ever before...almost all of them illegally smuggled, and all of those in the hands of criminals.....Good job, folks.

 

[Henderson]

I consider this another political piece and give it just as much credibility as other articles of this nature, little to none.

I tend to go along with this line of thought, but would also like to add another very briefly... While I am very sick and tired of everyone (individuals and countries) blaming the USA for what seems to be every problem under the sun, I am even more sick and tired of America, and Americans, screaming martyrdom about it. Like we've never done anything to deserve this?

Respectfully,

Frank

 

[jdinca]

I tend to go along with this line of thought, but would also like to add another very briefly... While I am very sick and tired of everyone (individuals and countries) blaming the USA for what seems to be every problem under the sun, I am even more sick and tired of America, and Americans, screaming martyrdom about it. Like we've never done anything to deserve this?

Respectfully,

Frank

Oh, believe me. Our arrogance over the decades has definitely lended itself to this phenomenon. The egos that come with power can make for stupid mistakes and statements. Yes, I do think that others in the world have good ideas that we should listen to on occasion.

The problem is that these very some people/countries who blame us for everything are the first to holler for help when it hits the fan and the first to blame us when we don't take the lead. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. My main issue is that the negative is what is broadcast and focused on the most and the positive is minimized. Look at the pounding we took after the tsunami, which, btw, certain factions in the Islamic world tried to blame on us. Because we took an organized approach to see what it was going to take and where the money would be spent the best, we got hammered, even though in the end we were at the forefront of donors and providing emergency and logistical needs.

The earthquake in Pakistan. Reuters headline "US donations after earthquake way below tsunami". Yet the poll numbers from Pakistan a few weeks after the earthquake showed a tremendous change in the way Pakistanis view the US. Why? Because the first foreign assistance came from the US military next door in Afghanistan. Which do you think got more press in the world?

"US favorability among Pakistanis has doubled from 23% in May to more than 46% now, while the percentage of Pakistanis with very unfavorable views declined from 48% to 28%. For the first time since 9/11, more Pakistanis are now favorable to the United States than unfavorable.
78% of Pakistanis have a more favorable opinion of the United States because of the American response to the earthquake, with the strongest support among those under 35."


I agree with you about "martyrdom" but it's a natural response to the barrage of negative publicity we've received, not just recently but for decades. If there was a balanced view in the media about what we do in the world, I think you would see much more favorable opinions of the US and much less martyrdom on our part.

As such, when I read or hear about the latest thing those evil Americans are doing in the world, my first reaction is "whatever".

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh, believe me. Our arrogance over the decades has definitely lended itself to this phenomenon. The egos that come with power can make for stupid mistakes and statements. Yes, I do think that others in the world have good ideas that we should listen to on occasion.

The problem is that these very some people/countries who blame us for everything are the first to holler for help when it hits the fan and the first to blame us when we don't take the lead. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. My main issue is that the negative is what is broadcast and focused on the most and the positive is minimized. Look at the pounding we took after the tsunami, which, btw, certain factions in the Islamic world tried to blame on us. Because we took an organized approach to see what it was going to take and where the money would be spent the best, we got hammered, even though in the end we were at the forefront of donors and providing emergency and logistical needs.

The earthquake in Pakistan. Reuters headline "US donations after earthquake way below tsunami". Yet the poll numbers from Pakistan a few weeks after the earthquake showed a tremendous change in the way Pakistanis view the US. Why? Because the first foreign assistance came from the US military next door in Afghanistan. Which do you think got more press in the world?

"US favorability among Pakistanis has doubled from 23% in May to more than 46% now, while the percentage of Pakistanis with very unfavorable views declined from 48% to 28%. For the first time since 9/11, more Pakistanis are now favorable to the United States than unfavorable.
78% of Pakistanis have a more favorable opinion of the United States because of the American response to the earthquake, with the strongest support among those under 35."


I agree with you about "martyrdom" but it's a natural response to the barrage of negative publicity we've received, not just recently but for decades. If there was a balanced view in the media about what we do in the world, I think you would see much more favorable opinions of the US and much less martyrdom on our part.

As such, when I read or hear about the latest thing those evil Americans are doing in the world, my first reaction is "whatever".

It's lonely at the top. Envy is a dangerous motivator. When you're in the top leadership position, everyone's plotting to knock you off, and take your place. Everything you do is under a microscope. Americans need to just deal with it.

 

[jdinca]

It's lonely at the top. Envy is a dangerous motivator. When you're in the top leadership position, everyone's plotting to knock you off, and take your place. Everything you do is under a microscope. Americans need to just deal with it.

Yep.

 

[Kreth]

We'll get them straightened out once they become state #51... :lol:

 

[Rynocerous]

Now to the specifics, of Canada. I really wonder if all the guns are truly American Made or are they Chinese, or Czech, or Russian, or ...? Even if you can find the same model in the USA does not mean it was made in the USA.

Very true! Weapons are made all around the world, and are not very hard to obtain...it is not just the United States who produces and sells these weapons. Even if it is made illegal to transport firearms from the US to Canada, the criminals will still find their weapons. Great post Rich, it was a good read.

Sincerely,

Ryan W Guthormsen

 

[Lisa]

We'll get them straightened out once they become state #51... :lol:

Hey Kreth... :2xBird2:

But on a more serious note.

Blaming American's for our problems is, well, silly. We have them just like any other nation and looking elsewhere instead of trying to find help our citizens find a solution together is much easier for the polititians, especially during campaign time.

What happened in Toronto and what is happening all over our country is truly a tragedy. We had our 2nd homicide of the year here in Winnipeg, two or three days ago, a guy was shot and killed. I would bet my next weeks pay that the gun used was not registered. We need a change in our leadership here in our country and like many other countries we are starved to find a LEADER not a politician. We need tougher laws when crimes are committed with firearms and we need to sensitize our kids against violence and give them some kind of alternative to gangs.

I, like Rich, am still thinking exactly how this is going to come to be. I doubt I will see it in my lifetime.

 

[Makalakumu]

...we need to sensitize our kids against violence...

This is the major cultural change that needs to happen in our country. Our children should not be taught that shooting people is fun or that it is entertainment. Violence should always be a terrible (although, regretfully, neccessary) thing. Our society is addicted to violence and we need to hit the methadone clinic.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Violence has ALWAYS been glorified. The first toys for little boys were probably little clubs. The Bible is full of warfare, the Illiad and the Odessy and so on. The difference IMO is that kids these days glorify the act of violence itself or all the culture that goes with it (gangs, drugs, sex, etc). I think in the old days boys dreamed of being the hero, the soldier, the policeman, the lone ranger, maybe doing violence but the violence itself wasnt the focus, they were at least imagining that they were the good guys. These days everybody talks about "respect" and not getting dissed. Its about being the tough guy or paying back people who picked on them. Video games are about being hit men and gangsters, the games are about the killing and not about serving your country or even about fighting for your buddies. In the digital world its all about the player. At least in books and even in some good movies you have a feeling that there are other people involved that are important. It may be ignorant, but thats just how I see it.