Canadian Violence blamed on Americans...??

[Henderson]

We need tougher laws when crimes are committed with firearms...

While I fully support this statement, I also wonder if it will make any difference. We all have heard "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". By the same token, should we really allow ourselves to believe that these people would be swayed from violence by an extra 5, 10, 20 or more years for committing a crime with a firearm?

Respects,

Frank

 

[Lisa]

While I fully support this statement, I also wonder if it will make any difference. We all have heard "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". By the same token, should we really allow ourselves to believe that these people would be swayed from violence by an extra 5, 10, 20 or more years for committing a crime with a firearm?

Respects,

Frank

I understand where you are going with this and to a point I agree. But if we aren't tough on those that commit the crimes, then what? I don't believe anyone is naive enough to believe that if we implement harsher laws against violent acts involving guns that the so called "bad guys" are going to throw their guns in the river and say "well, that's it for me, I am done!"

What I hope will happen is that we will get those people off the streets and not committing anymore crimes and hopefully save some people's lives in the process and hopefully over time, perhaps that threat of time if you do the crime will send a message to those that don't think it is one now.

I don't know, maybe I'm a dreamer, but something has to give. I suppose every nation is in the same boat. The problem has gone from pond size to ocean size and we are just sailing along aimlessly trying to find the right way of dealing with a situation out of control.

 

[Henderson]

I understand where you are going with this and to a point I agree. But if we aren't tough on those that commit the crimes, then what? I don't believe anyone is naive enough to believe that if we implement harsher laws against violent acts involving guns that the so called "bad guys" are going to throw their guns in the river and say "well, that's it for me, I am done!"

What I hope will happen is that we will get those people off the streets and not committing anymore crimes and hopefully save some people's lives in the process and hopefully over time, perhaps that threat of time if you do the crime will send a message to those that don't think it is one now.

I don't know, maybe I'm a dreamer, but something has to give. I suppose every nation is in the same boat. The problem has gone from pond size to ocean size and we are just sailing along aimlessly trying to find the right way of dealing with a situation out of control.

Don't get me wrong, Lisa. I fully agree with you. It's just that in this day and age our justice systems are so screwed it's ridiculous. We lock people up for longer sentences for non-violent crimes than rape or child abuse. Personally, I'd like to see the use of a firearm add 20 yrs regardless of the crime. Rob a convenience store?...2-5. Rob it with a gun?...22-25. But it'll never happen.

 

[Lisa]

Don't get me wrong, Lisa. I fully agree with you. It's just that in this day and age our justice systems are so screwed it's ridiculous. We lock people up for longer sentences for non-violent crimes than rape or child abuse. Personally, I'd like to see the use of a firearm add 20 yrs regardless of the crime. Rob a convenience store?...2-5. Rob it with a gun?...22-25. But it'll never happen.

*sigh

You are right, it never will happen. Instead we will continue to make laws that have no real hope of solving the issue and kick ourselves in the *** in 20 years time cause hindsight is always 20/20

 

[kenpo0324]

My take on it maybe wrong, but here it is (IMO) If you Kill someone on purpose then you get No second chance, you should be put to death too.
For violent crimes and acts, they should be given a longer and harder sentence and have to prove that they can function in a normal society without committing violence and if there is a chance of them doing it again then don't let them out at all, till they can prove that their going to live by society rules. First thing I think we need to do here in Canada is get rid of this young defenders Act. Far as I'm concerned you do the crime, you do the time. No matter your Age. This wont solve all the problems, but it would send a strong message to people and maybe make them think twice before they acted.

 

[Makalakumu]

Violence has ALWAYS been glorified. The first toys for little boys were probably little clubs. The Bible is full of warfare, the Illiad and the Odessy and so on. The difference IMO is that kids these days glorify the act of violence itself or all the culture that goes with it (gangs, drugs, sex, etc). I think in the old days boys dreamed of being the hero, the soldier, the policeman, the lone ranger, maybe doing violence but the violence itself wasnt the focus, they were at least imagining that they were the good guys. These days everybody talks about "respect" and not getting dissed. Its about being the tough guy or paying back people who picked on them. Video games are about being hit men and gangsters, the games are about the killing and not about serving your country or even about fighting for your buddies. In the digital world its all about the player. At least in books and even in some good movies you have a feeling that there are other people involved that are important. It may be ignorant, but thats just how I see it.

I was going to post something very similar to what you posted in follow-up to my previous statement. Violence HAS always been glorified, however, the presentation makes a BIG difference. Kids should recieve a different message then we currently give them regarding violence. This message can evolve as they get older...just like anything else parents tell their kids...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I was going to post something very similar to what you posted in follow-up to my previous statement. Violence HAS always been glorified, however, the presentation makes a BIG difference. Kids should recieve a different message then we currently give them regarding violence. This message can evolve as they get older...just like anything else parents tell their kids...

I think the biggest problem is that "we" are not really giving our kids any message anymore. Its the television and their friends. Im a big Tolkien fan and I remember wanting to be Aragorn. It seems like the kids today would rather be a black rider or Sauron. Or they idolize gangstas and drug dealers. I cant figure out why.

 

[Marginal]

I think the biggest problem is that "we" are not really giving our kids any message anymore. Its the television and their friends. Im a big Tolkien fan and I remember wanting to be Aragorn. It seems like the kids today would rather be a black rider or Sauron.

Yah, as if you didn't think the black riders were awesome. Not in a want to be them kinda way, but radical nonetheless.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Yah, as if you didn't think the black riders were awesome. Not in a want to be them kinda way, but radical nonetheless.

Its all about power and appearance. They LOOK cool and they are POWERFUL and can make other people fear them. Its like a lot of other things these days with the kids. They cant look past what "looks cool" and having power to what it means to be a good person or a bad person.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think the biggest problem is that "we" are not really giving our kids any message anymore. Its the television and their friends....

...and our culture in general. Somehow we have reached a point where what we know to be right and wrong has completely flip flopped in the media in which we entertain ourselves. Maybe its time to unplug...

 

[Kreth]

Ok, Americans, it's time to 'fess up. Canadians, it's a deliberate plot. It's payback for inflicting Bryan Adams, Alanis Morrissette, and Celine Dion on us...

 

[jdinca]

Ok, Americans, it's time to 'fess up. Canadians, it's a deliberate plot. It's payback for inflicting Bryan Adams, Alanis Morrissette, and Celine Dion on us...

Celine Dion alone warrants an invasion.

:apv:

 

[FearlessFreep]

...but For Rush and Triumph, I am willing to forgive much

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, evacuate Rush before the invasion.

 

[Lisa]

Here is an article outlining the "campaign promises" on Mandatory minimum sentencing, trying young offenders as adults, and banning handguns from the candidates of three of the parties running in our election this month. The article includes reaction to the proposals by different organizations including the the President of the Canadian Professional Police Association.

It will be interesting to see if any of these promises come to be once the campaign is over.

http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleN...k_060110/20060111?s_name=election2006&no_ads=

 

[sgtmac_46]

While I fully support this statement, I also wonder if it will make any difference. We all have heard "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". By the same token, should we really allow ourselves to believe that these people would be swayed from violence by an extra 5, 10, 20 or more years for committing a crime with a firearm?

Respects,

Frank

It's not about swaying them....it's about incarcerating them so they can't commit MULTIPLE crimes. The majority of violent crimes are committed by a small minority of violent criminals. Incarceration has proven to be the most effective tool and reducing violent crime.

 

[Rynocerous]

Granted that it would sway some criminals in commiting a crime knowing there would be an extra 5, 10, 20 years, but there are ways to do that without banning handguns. Just extend the jail sentence with crimes involving hand guns. I feel that taking away a citizens right to bare arms will not solve the problem. For some, just having the firearm gives them a sense of security, whether it is false security or not isn't the point. Most will never have to use it in defense, but having it is enough for that person to feel safe. I would never want to take that from an elderly person who has to live at home alone in fear of being harmed.

Just my two cents...

Rynocerous

 

[sgtmac_46]

Granted that it would sway some criminals in commiting a crime knowing there would be an extra 5, 10, 20 years, but there are ways to do that without banning handguns. Just extend the jail sentence with crimes involving hand guns. I feel that taking away a citizens right to bare arms will not solve the problem. For some, just having the firearm gives them a sense of security, whether it is false security or not isn't the point. Most will never have to use it in defense, but having it is enough for that person to feel safe. I would never want to take that from an elderly person who has to live at home alone in fear of being harmed.

Just my two cents...

Rynocerous

Legal citizens should NEVER be punished for the behavior of criminals. Banning guns is asinine, and it's been shown to be ineffective as crime control. In fact, some evidence suggests it's actually counter-productive, but it's clearly been shown to be moot at best.

What does work is incarcerating criminals. The quicker we can get a violent criminal off the streets, the less crimes he's able to commit. This seems like common sense to most of us, but it's a truth that has only occurred to the intellectual powers that be only very recently. I guess now that they've officially 'discovered' this truth, the rest of us are free to believe it.