Canadian Civil Libertarians Defend Coulter

[Gordon Nore]

Interesting discussions going on up here about Ann Coulter's three-city speaking tour. At one event she got into an exchange with a 17-year-old Muslim student who she told to go back on a camel to where he came from. No big surprise there. Before speaking in Ottawa the president at the UofO admonished her in a letter of Canada's hate laws. She went public with the letter, causing security to be doubled, threats made, and ultimately a canceled event.

Now the Canadian Civil Liberties Union is defending her right to speak, saying that even offensive speech needs an airing. Naturally, the who debacle has allowed Coulter to be cast as a free speech martyr. The Ottawa Citizen newspaper has an interesting editorial on the episode.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/op-ed/real+threat+civil+discourse/2723156/story.html

Other articles.

Coulter's free speech right defended

Toronto Star - Joanna Smith - ‎33 minutes ago‎
OTTAWA–They believe her words can be racist, hateful and ignorant, but she should be free to say them - just as others should be allowed to tell her to shut up.

Calgary school says Coulter will be treated with respect CTV.ca

 

[Scott T]

As an aquaintance on another board told me, even a cow has to moo once in a while.

 

[CoryKS]

It's always interesting to see how quick liberals are to shut down speech that they don't agree with.

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Carol]

It's always interesting to see how quick liberals are to shut down speech that they don't agree with.

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

And in the process, she got far more coast-to-coast press in both of our countries than she ever would have dreamed of getting had her talks gone without incident. Methinks her publishers are planning to increase the supply of her books sent to Canadian outlets now.

Congratulations Ottawa, you've played right in to her hands.

 

[Scott T]

It's always interesting to see how quick liberals are to shut down speech that they don't agree with.

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Really? You're in favour of Coulter telling a 17-year-old student that while she should by summarily banned from flying because she's a Muslim she can ride a flying carpet instead or, barring that, a camel?

Carol, it wasn't the Government that shut Coulter down, it was the University of Ottawa itself.

I still contend she should be put on the same no-entry list as Michael Weiner.

 

[CoryKS]

Really? You're in favour of Coulter telling a 17-year-old student that while she should by summarily banned from flying because she's a Muslim she can ride a flying carpet instead or, barring that, a camel?

Carol, it wasn't the Government that shut Coulter down, it was the University of Ottawa itself.

I still contend she should be put on the same no-entry list as Michael Weiner.

You really are unclear on this "liberal" thing, aren't you?

OT: LOL at the Ann Coulter - Free! ad that displayed at the top of the page.

 

[Scott T]

You really are unclear on this "liberal" thing, aren't you?

Don't be shy, 'splain it to me.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Indeed, Carol, that's been the tenor of many of the editorials on the matter. People want to confront her for her views, I'm fine with it. To raise the threat of violence is another matter, which does indeed play into her hands.

It's always interesting to see how quick liberals are to shut down speech that they don't agree with.

People who threaten violence are not liberals, nor are they conservatives. Liberal ideology emphasizes open-mindedness and tolerance; conservative ideology reflects restraint. Neither philosophy, in and of itself, lends itself to the thuggery of threatening Ann Coulter up here or Democratic legislators down your way.

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

I do. Down your way it's an epithet of some sort, denoting someone who lacks restraint and is responsible for everything that ever went wrong in America. They manage to undermine the Republic even when conservatives are running the show. They dislike guns so much they grab 'em up, pose as conservatives, and shoot other liberals. Scary bunch.

Here, the word, "Liberal," is the name of a centrist party.

 

[Grenadier]

Really? You're in favour of Coulter telling a 17-year-old student that while she should by summarily banned from flying because she's a Muslim she can ride a flying carpet instead or, barring that, a camel?

Tolerance is a two way street. Even if you don't like what the other guy has to say, you should still respect his right to say it, as long as what he says isn't in violation of the laws of the land. You don't have to agree with it, and you can certainly fight against it using whatever *legal* means, but at least you must respect someone's right to say as they please.

The ignorant crowd who screams "Ann Coulter is a hate mongering bigot and should be forbidden from ever speaking again!" needs to understand the old phrase of "pot... kettle... kettle... pot..."

On another note, in some countries, the Liberal party is actually a very conservative one...

 

[Carol]

Carol, it wasn't the Government that shut Coulter down, it was the University of Ottawa itself.

...which is funded by the Province of Ontario, the employees of the University of Ottawa are Provincial employees, btw.

But..either way, I never intended to mean it was Ottawa the seat of government that shut her out, I was referring to the city/uni itself.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Tolerance is a two way street. Even if you don't like what the other guy has to say, you should still respect his right to say it, as long as what he says isn't in violation of the laws of the land. You don't have to agree with it, and you can certainly fight against it using whatever *legal* means, but at least you must respect someone's right to say as they please.

I suspect that much of the crowd were young students, idealistic, full of piss and vinegar. I also suspect they were outraged by the camel comment. I`m not excusing threatening behaviour, but passions run high in these settings, and this is a good opportunity for university educators to educate. In a university setting, one should be open to a `universe` of ideas.

As for respect for opposing views, Coulter herself has never demonstrated that, which makes her highly suspect as a guest speaker in a college or university. She is polarizing. She is a lightening rod.

Probably the best thing to do, if one loathes Coulter as much as I, is not to bother showing for her speech. Don`t spend the money. Don`t give her the satisfaction.

 

[blindsage]

I'm just confused where are all the ACLU haters now? It's the CCLA so it's different? They're defending somebody you like so it's different?

It's always interesting to see how quick liberals are to shut down speech that they don't agree with.

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Sooo, the CCLA isn't liberal to you?

 

[Gordon Nore]

I'm just confused where are all the ACLU haters now? It's the CCLA so it's different? They're defending somebody you like so it's different?

Sooo, the CCLA isn't liberal to you?

When it comes to speech, I tend to see civil libertarians as free speech (or 2nd Amendment) absolutists, which is a rare species. Many people across the political spectrum 'say' they believe in free speech, myself included, but when the rubber hits the road, many of us find exceptions.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Liberal ideology emphasizes open-mindedness and tolerance; conservative ideology reflects restraint.

Well, I think it's a two-way street, and neither liberals nor conservatives have acquitted themselves very well.

I still remember the attempts at passing 'hate radio' and 'hate speech' laws made by liberals in the USA, aimed at shutting down people like Rush Limbaugh. They're all for free speech, but not from him.

Likewise, I remember the demonstrations against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when he was invited to speak at Columbia University by conservatives. Seems freedom of speech is not for those who say bad things about the USA and Israel.

Both sides paint the other as 'intolerant' and the truth is, they both are. It just depends upon whose ox is being gored.

And yes, it kind of sounds like Coulter is playing the media like a fiddle.

I have liberal friends who send me emails and tweets telling me the latest outrage about this conservative said this and that hater said that, and I have conservative friends and relatives who send me emails telling me about the latest outrage by this liberal politician and that liberal media talking head. Meh.

 

[Gordon Nore]

When it comes to speech, I tend to see civil libertarians as free speech (or 2nd Amendment) absolutists, which is a rare species. Many people across the political spectrum 'say' they believe in free speech, myself included, but when the rubber hits the road, many of us find exceptions.

Ooops. That would be the 1st Amendment.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Well, I think it's a two-way street, and neither liberals nor conservatives have acquitted themselves very well.

I still remember the attempts at passing 'hate radio' and 'hate speech' laws made by liberals in the USA, aimed at shutting down people like Rush Limbaugh. They're all for free speech, but not from him.

Likewise, I remember the demonstrations against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when he was invited to speak at Columbia University by conservatives. Seems freedom of speech is not for those who say bad things about the USA and Israel.

Both sides paint the other as 'intolerant' and the truth is, they both are. It just depends upon whose ox is being gored.

And yes, it kind of sounds like Coulter is playing the media like a fiddle.

I have liberal friends who send me emails and tweets telling me the latest outrage about this conservative said this and that hater said that, and I have conservative friends and relatives who send me emails telling me about the latest outrage by this liberal politician and that liberal media talking head. Meh.

Quite so. That is why I believe there are very few true free speech absolutists -- I'm as guilty as the next on that score.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Quite so. That is why I believe there are very few true free speech absolutists -- I'm as guilty as the next on that score.

I try not to get sucked in, but I've had my moments too.

I was living in Colorado when the KKK came to town. I stayed away; I'm not interested in what they have to say, and I'm not interested in playing into their hands by going downtown and protesting or fighting them. There was a riot, a young girl was nearly killed. No point to it.

I was living in Wisconsin years later, same thing. Only this time, the town involved put on an alternative event at the same time as the hate rally elsewhere in the city and invited everyone to come. It was a huge success, and the KKK had very few people to scream at on their bullhorns. They eventually left.

I hate that Fred Phelps and his people are allowed to gather near funerals for servicemen and scream the obscenities and abuse and hatred that they do; but I cannot be one of the 'patriots' who tries to intimidate, assault, or prevent them from behaving badly either.

There are lots of things people say that I disagree with; some things which I hate; some things which make my blood boil. But in order to support the notions that I claim are sacred to me about my nation, I have to suck it up and move on. The right to free speech means the right to say things I don't want to hear.

Freedom is not necessarily fun all the time. It can be damned hard work.

 

[Carol]

Free speech: Right, as stated in the 1st and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution to express information, ideas, and opinions free of government restrictions based on content.

Passing hate crime laws to restrict Rush Limbaugh: violation of the first amendment

A private university's choice of speaker is not covered under first amendment protection.

 

[Blade96]

funny, people defending Anne Coulter's right to free speech and to say what she wants and feels

when people like her would turn around and take every one of your rights away in a heart beat if they could. You think she'd respect you? Hah!

I've known lots of religious conservative nutters like her.

and btw I've seen her, and often think, No wonder she is pretty. She must have been born with most of her good qualities on the outside. =]

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A private university's choice of speaker is not covered under first amendment protection.

I agree. However, attempts made to stifle speech that others do not wish to hear as opposed to simply not listening to it are not the actions of a person who supports the notion of freedom of speech, as one might suppose a university would do.

And in any case, Canada has no first amendment.