Canada takes No. 1 spot in global image poll

[Steve]

Andrew, you should also consider that our USA “faults” are constantly being documented by "fellow Americans” for the past four decades, plus!

There is the constant critique from left-wing academics, the mass media, Hollywood – and a new generation of “globalists & hyphenated Americans” who really do not believe in our national sovereignty, language or culture.

It's always interesting to me that left wingers are characterized as criticizing "America" while right wingers are not. Right wingers criticize "Left Wingers". The implication being that Right Wing represents "AMERICA" and left wingers are... what? Not American? Not representative of America?

They are simply part of the “Blame America First” crowd. They have that freedom, but tolerance has never meant acceptance of others’ beliefs, contrary to MTV.

"They" are as much a part of America as you are, and your "Blame America First" argument is bitterly ironic.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Getting back to Canada, OK I admit it, if I had the chance I would move to Montreal :disgust:

There I said it :disgust:

But it has less to do with Canada and more to do with a Xingyiquan Sifu I know is there :uhyeah:

 

[Empty Hands]

"1,000 people in 27 different countries"

Hardly A comprehensive survey. How did they choose the 1000 from each country??

Did you actually think they call everyone up in the area in question in order to perform polls? Statistics is a well defined and well understood science. Given a truly random sample, it doesn't take much to get the true state of the population in question. There are also well defined mathematical tools to determine the power of your data, and the probability of error. That is usually reported as the margin of error, which is included in every poll. Discounting an entire branch of mathematics because you don't like the result is hardly scientific.

Besides, is anyone really surprised that people around the world don't much care for America? That is all we've been hearing the past 5 or so years.

But this survey is far from empirical no matter WHO would've come out on top.

I'm sure you have access to the power rating for this study in order to come to this conclusion? No?

 

[Andrew Green]

Seriously, Canada is a lovely country.
They may even do one or two things better than the USA, I just cannot think of it.
Universal Healthcare? Maybe not! Immigration enforcement? Maybe!

Lack of universal health care alone would keep me from ever moving to the US, but to each his own.

Actually, at one level, I am concerned what Canada, England and Australia “think” about us, since in historical conflicts during the past one-hundred years, only these three countries have demonstrated with their blood and friendship that they are worthy for US Americans to walk down into a dark alley with.

This relates to the study in a sense, which pointed out that military nations tended to not rank that high. You are basing your judgment on other countries based largely on how willing they are to fight the wars you think should be fought.

Oddly enough this sort of attitude is really not that "American" from a historical perspective. Remember the US sat out of a large part of both WW1 and WW2, getting involved only when they had no choice due to a attack on them.

It also goes largely against past US doctrine, like the Monroe Doctrine which was largely about leaving Europe to Europe and keeping Europe out of the western hemisphere.

They are simply part of the “Blame America First” crowd. They have that freedom, but tolerance has never meant acceptance of others’ beliefs, contrary to MTV.

So freedom to live your life however you want, just so long as you live it within these parameters?

Is it possible that you are the one blaming America? Why them? You have two groups of Americans with two opposing views. Why is one "American" and the other not?

So when a statistical opinion study - including a segment from 3rd-world, non-freedom hellholes criticizes us – it is to laugh.

Freedom is a funny word, it means different things to different people. As you stated above, you do not always accept others beliefs, they might not accept yours.

But lets look at freedom. In the US do gays have the freedom to marry? Can I smoke a joint? Do I have access to medical care when I need it, even if I have no money? Can I visit any country I choose (like Cuba)?

The US lacks certain freedoms because they are determined undesirable to have by the ruling parties, other countries just choose different freedoms to restrict then you do, some choose more, others less.

Now many American would object to those freedoms being granted to other them, oddly enough this happens in other places as well. There are also freedoms many Americans wish they had, but don't. Same thing as in other countries. There are freedoms other countries have that Americans don't think they should have, same for the reverse, you got freedoms people in other countries don't think you should have.

So who is to say which set of freedoms and restrictions is right and which is wrong? I believe that people should be free to do pretty much anything as long as it doesn't interfere with others, joint smoking included. Not everyone agrees, and that's ok.

But the key thing to remember is that America is not this shinning beacon of freedom, there are countries with more freedoms, and countries with less. On top of that some people believe you should have more, and others believe you should have less.

Sometimes those choices are limited by practical considerations, with a high population density and a high poverty rate things are going to be different then in a low population density and high income rate. Religious beliefs are also going to play a huge part, as is historical and current events.

I still remember twenty plus years ago - an American president was believed by the popular European & Worldwide culture (along with most of the US Mainstream Media) as a “crazy old warmonger” as he tried to strengthen the NATO Alliance and upgrade its weapon systems. That alliance against a country - which during the 20th Century in the name of their man-centric economic religion called Communism - had slaughtered tens of millions of their own subjects - along with occupying dozens of satellite countries and oppressing millions more...

Yet we were the bad guys?

Ok, now in the cold war neither side was entirely good or entirely bad.

Russia had a really rough time as they where also coming out of 2 major wars that had cost a lot more then they had in the US, a political revolution and fighting there way out of 3rd world status, I can't see that as a fair comparison to the US at the same time, which fought in the WW's at the end, and never on there home soil. There was expenses and loses, but no where near what where felt in Europe.

Now go back a bit to the American revolutions and it seems Americans have killed Americans in time of revolution, a couple of times. They have occupied and invaded countries killing all sorts of people, and they have used puppet governments and overthrown ones that they didn't like quite a few times in history.

But this is, I suspect, one of the contributing factors to the results of the poll. Other countries are more willing to admit there mistakes, the Germans certainly do, Russia does, China is a little different, but most of there influence has been internal... but like a little while ago they are coming out of a revolution and fighting out of 3rd world status, having been culturally and financially beaten by the west and Japan.

But many Americans, not all, but enough, seem to be in complete denial that the US can do any wrong when it interferes in the affairs of other countries, and if that country gets annoyed about it they "hate you for your freedom" or some other nonsense.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Andrew you seem to have an anti-American thing going? You do know that by our military and economic strength and Canada being such a good friend of America that both countries have prospered. Personally I really like Canada and all of my Canadian friends seem to also like America. (heck a vast majority live here now having wanted to live the American life style) There is good and bad in every system both in Canada and the US. Still the US has been a beacon of freedom in many peoples opinion. (almost the entire worlds for quite a while) That simply is a fact that would be hard to dispute. :cheers:

Studies such as this are rarely without major flaws.

That is all I am saying. This particular study looks to be flawed based on the information given. Believe it our not I could probably do an independent study and get almost direct opposite results if I chose to do so.

Statistics are interesting in that people play with them.

The other thing to remember is that as America goes and as Canada goes so do both go. We are to closely economically and geographically linked that if one goes south the other will follow.

 

[Twin Fist]

oddly enough, the very same countries that complain about "american Interference" are the first ones complain that america doesnt do enough to help when disaster strikes ......

odd isnt it?

speaking as a typical American, i stopped worrying about what the world thought about us a long time ago.

millions are lined up to come here, so that alone tells me we are doing something right

 

[Andrew Green]

Andrew you seem to have an anti-American thing going?

More anti-pots-calling-kettles-black and rejecting any study that doesn't get the results you want.

But I'm open here, why is the study flawed? They seem to have used neutral language and asked the same question about all the countries involved. The survey was to judge perception, how is it biased or flawed? How could it be improved?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

More anti-pots-calling-kettles-black and rejecting any study that doesn't get the results you want.

But I'm open here, why is the study flawed? They seem to have used neutral language and asked the same question about all the countries involved. The survey was to judge perception, how is it biased or flawed? How could it be improved?

Seems to me you want people to accept this poll because it says what you want?


As to the poll itself and its flaws. Here are just a couple but I probably could go on for a long time and find a lot more.

Well first off they only asked a 28,000 people. That is one small groupand if you get one hundred people from a certain area that could feel differently or if that area is skewed a certain way they then entire statistics could be messed up. Then you have to look at the statisticians and figure out not only what is there objective but what are they looking to get out of it? You see many times a statistician will create a study just to prove a certain point. So right off the bat you need to look at the group and see what their agenda is. That is why say in American politics we have a bunch of polls. Only by looking at several can you get a wider idea or a general picture. Even then you need to look at which group or what company is putting out the poll. One poll with a small group means very, very little. Just not enough data.

Now if there are five or six of these type of polls by different unbiased (read reputable) companies then we maybe getting somewhere and have a clearer picture.

As to having to prove a poll has a flaw well really it does not work that way. The pollsters have to prove to the public that their poll is not flawed.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

No study is perfect, which is why there is always a margin of error associated with the results.

But regardless, how would you improve it?

That's my whole point--I would never have done such a thing at ALL.

 

[Andrew Green]

Seems to me you want people to accept this poll because it says what you want?

As I said, Canada being in first surprises me, but I'll take it

Well first off they only asked a 28,000 people. That is one small group

28,000 is a pretty good sample size, and as was stated by someone above with a random sample there are very well defined rules regarding the accuracy of a statistic including how to calculate the error of margin. It may be off slightly, but its highly unlikely that the results would drastically change with a larger sample size.

Now if there are five or six of these type of polls by different unbiased (read reputable) companies then we maybe getting somewhere and have a clearer picture.

The BBC isn't reputable?

Why would a British poll rig itself to have Canada, Japan and France come out on top?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I just thought there was one thing I should say since the thread drift.

In the event it came across that I for some reason had issues with Canada--I don't. I happen to like certain things there better than here and while I have issues with popularity surveys of any kind, I can see why it would be cool for folks in Canada to see a top result, as since the other Andrew seems to indicate that appears to be a rare occurrence. So yay Canda

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As I said, Canada being in first surprises me, but I'll take it


28,000 is a pretty good sample size, and as was stated by someone above with a random sample there are very well defined rules regarding the accuracy of a statistic including how to calculate the error of margin. It may be off slightly, but its highly unlikely that the results would drastically change with a larger sample size.




The BBC isn't reputable?

Why would a British poll rig itself to have Canada, Japan and France come out on top?

Never said it was rigged. Just a small sample size and only one poll. You would be surprised how statisticians also play with the statistics. Take for example when Obama was way up in the polls here in the States. I said to myself no way it is that large of a margin and guess what it was not. (at least that is what is currently believed and yet could be completely wrong at this point) I forget the exact reason but I believe it had to do with the random sampling, location, size and wording. You see polls are in general are well something to view with a skeptical eye. I think that is what Andy and I are trying to convey.

Not that the BBC is not reputable but it is only one source and only one poll. That does not make it necessarily an accurate poll. Now if we had three or four polls pointing to the same thing then that would be a real indication. Though I think if we had three or four polls that Canada might not be the top and the USA would certainly not be at the bottom with Iran and North Korea. (that is a joke) However when you start to look at the countries that they polled well then it starts to add up.

Like Andy above I am all for Canada and Andrew I think you will be surprised that Canada will be first in many areas in the future so I would not be surprised of that. Take this poll and be happy but understand it is just one poll.

If a poll came out today that said that the United States had favorable ratings in all Muslim countries I would be very skeptical. (I would probably laugh my head off at that poll :lol2 However, I could easily create a poll and administer it and get that result.

Simple wording and polling only in certain locations and walla I have the result that I want.

Just be a skeptic with any poll that is all I am saying!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS MEEEEEEEE>>>>>>>>*reaches to heaven to choir music by Dethklok*

 

[FearlessFreep]

*reaches to heaven to choir music by Dethklok*

everybody chant "Des-lok DeslokDeslok Des-lock DeslokDeslok..."

wait...wrong guys...

 

[CoryKS]

everybody chant "Des-lok DeslokDeslok Des-lock DeslokDeslok..."

wait...wrong guys...

Star Blazers!

 

[Cryozombie]

I took a poll, and my random sampling said Canada wants Bush to lead them next.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Star Blazers!

Yeah, every time I see Metalocalypse and they mention the band (Dethklock), my mind starts playing the "Deslok" chant from Star Blazers