Can You Be An Expert?

[ballen0351]

E

Your the only one who has been telling war stories. I have purposely avoided referring to any of my experience or occupation since the my opening post

Yes what's left to say after that first post lol...

. There is some really knowledgeable people here unfortunately there are a lot of people on here with inflated egos too. I may be around longer than you think I will heed admins warning and unlike you I understand its the guys with decades of experience are the ones to listen to. Since you already said you were in school in the 80s your definitely not in that category Lucky.

Lol ok...
So tell me what you consider an expert in self defense? How much experience is enough?

 

[Steve]

So tell me what you consider an expert in self defense? How much experience is enough?

More than none.


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[ballen0351]

More than none.


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Ok so how much. And how do you know how much they really have?

 

[CNida]

Ok so how much. And how do you know how much they really have?

Okay lets look at it your way for a sec. It doesn't matter if the guy teaching you the technique has ever done the technique, as you are suggesting, as long as said technique works, right?

How do you know the technique this guy is teaching you works?


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[ballen0351]

Okay lets look at it your way for a sec. It doesn't matter if the guy teaching you the technique has ever done the technique, as you are suggesting, as long as said technique works, right?

How do you know the technique this guy is teaching you works?


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

You can look at most things and say hmmmm that looks effective or hmmm that's silly. If the foundation and principals are sound then it should work. I say should because there is never a 100%. You test it in class, you break it down and look at the fundamentals. What you don't do is take my word for it because I tell u I tried it 10 times in real life and it works.
Reverse that however just because I stand in font of the class and show you how I did a flying reverse 360 back kick transferred into a headlock and its awesome I did it in 50 bar fights and never lost does that mean your going to pull it off and it works?

Funny thing about the term expert is it really means nothing. You can have 2 experts on the same topic give you totally opposite answers to the same problem. I see it in court all the time. You have your experts I have mine and we let the Jury decide who's experts are prettier and can entertain better. So of this is an opinion argument anyway.

My example to Steve was an FBI analyst that studied 1000s of Officer murders and assault and teaches an Officer safety class on it. To me he's an expert well to a lot of people hes an expert but to Steve hes not. That's ok its his choice. All an expert can do is give an opinion anyway.

Another Class I went to was with the head of the FBI's chemical agent program. Dude knew more about OC Spray, CN , CS gas, Mace, you name it if its a chemical that hurts he knew about it. Dudes not even in Law enforcement. He was deputized as a US Marshall because he transports large amounts of chemical agents all over the country to teach but he has no police powers he has never used the stuff on a real bad guy. He was at Waco however and the FBI trusted his Expertise to decide how much gas and where to pump it. Again not a cop at all yet trains 1000's of them. To me hes an expert. To some here because he never sprayed a real bad guy hes not. Your opinion but Id say your wrong

 

[CNida]

You can look at most things and say hmmmm that looks effective or hmmm that's silly. If the foundation and principals are sound then it should work. I say should because there is never a 100%. You test it in class, you break it down and look at the fundamentals. What you don't do is take my word for it because I tell u I tried it 10 times in real life and it works.
Reverse that however just because I stand in font of the class and show you how I did a flying reverse 360 back kick transferred into a headlock and its awesome I did it in 50 bar fights and never lost does that mean your going to pull it off and it works?

Funny thing about the term expert is it really means nothing. You can have 2 experts on the same topic give you totally opposite answers to the same problem. I see it in court all the time. You have your experts I have mine and we let the Jury decide who's experts are prettier and can entertain better. So of this is an opinion argument anyway.

My example to Steve was an FBI analyst that studied 1000s of Officer murders and assault and teaches an Officer safety class on it. To me he's an expert well to a lot of people hes an expert but to Steve hes not. That's ok its his choice. All an expert can do is give an opinion anyway.

Another Class I went to was with the head of the FBI's chemical agent program. Dude knew more about OC Spray, CN , CS gas, Mace, you name it if its a chemical that hurts he knew about it. Dudes not even in Law enforcement. He was deputized as a US Marshall because he transports large amounts of chemical agents all over the country to teach but he has no police powers he has never used the stuff on a real bad guy. He was at Waco however and the FBI trusted his Expertise to decide how much gas and where to pump it. Again not a cop at all yet trains 1000's of them. To me hes an expert. To some here because he never sprayed a real bad guy hes not. Your opinion but Id say your wrong

Youre absolutely right. There are different types of "experts".

The guy you're talking about? I would argue that he does know what he is talking about if he really studied all that stuff.

And to cite you're own point, you can never be 100% about anyones credibility. Even the expert who studied 1000s of cases.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[ballen0351]

Youre absolutely right. There are different types of "experts".

The guy you're talking about? I would argue that he does know what he is talking about if he really studied all that stuff.

And to cite you're own point, you can never be 100% about anyones credibility. Even the expert who studied 1000s of cases.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

So Then you agree its possible to be an expert in something you have never done in real life. Im not saying Real life exp. isn't good but its also not always a must.

 

[Steve]

Ok so how much. And how do you know how much they really have?

More than zero is the answer. Not none. How much depends. You're being obstinate on purpose, I think.

Whether you can tell someone is an expert has nothing to do with whether they are one.

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[Steve]

Youre absolutely right. There are different types of "experts".

The guy you're talking about? I would argue that he does know what he is talking about if he really studied all that stuff.

And to cite you're own point, you can never be 100% about anyones credibility. Even the expert who studied 1000s of cases.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

He knows the distinction between academic expertise and practical expertise. He just won't admit it.


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[ballen0351]

He knows the distinction between academic expertise and practical expertise. He just won't admit it.


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Dude an expert is an expert. You said you can't be an expert without doing it for real. That's a false statement. Academic or practical your still an EXPERT

 

[ballen0351]

More than zero is the answer. Not none. How much depends. You're being obstinate on purpose, I think.

Whether you can tell someone is an expert has nothing to do with whether they are one.

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No not at all I was responding to Rambo when he said once or Twice wwasn't good enough according to him. You answered for him with a BS no answer. And still refuse to answer which is your M.O.

 

[Steve]

Dude an expert is an expert. You said you can't be an expert without doing it for real. That's a false statement. Academic or practical your still an EXPERT

This is the crux of it. An expert is not an expert. It's clear you think you've scored,some kind of victory, but I can't for the life of me figure out what you think you've won.



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[Steve]

No not at all I was responding to Rambo when he said once or Twice wwasn't good enough according to him. You answered for him with a BS no answer. And still refuse to answer which is your M.O.

Now you're just being petty.i answer every question you ask. I just don't indulge your childish games. Sorry. False dichotomies and other logical fallacies don't do it for me, like they do for you.


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[ballen0351]

This is the crux of it. An expert is not an expert. It's clear you think you've scored,some kind of victory, but I can't for the life of me figure out what you think you've won.



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Oh see I didn't know an expert wasn't an expert it all makes sense now. Lol whatever dude

 

[ballen0351]

Now you're just being petty.i answer every question you ask. I just don't indulge your childish games. Sorry. False dichotomies and other logical fallacies don't do it for me, like they do for you.


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Nothing false about it. You said it takes actual experience to be an expert I asked how many and you have no answer.

So I'll ask you can a guy that's never been raped be an expert at rape prevention techniques?

 

[CNida]

So Then you agree its possible to be an expert in something you have never done in real life. Im not saying Real life exp. isn't good but its also not always a must.

By the technical, dictionary definition? Yes.

Real life experience? No, not an absolute must. Just very highly preferred over the academic who is merely an observer of facts and records.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[Steve]

Nothing false about it. You said it takes actual experience to be an expert I asked how many and you have no answer.

So I'll ask you can a guy that's never been raped be an expert at rape prevention techniques?

I do have an answer. More than zero. I ran this by my five year old and she gets it.
Dude, you can have the last word here, too. It gets to a point where I really think you're just arguing for its own sake.

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[ballen0351]

I do have an answer. More than zero. I ran this by my five year old and she gets it.
Dude, you can have the last word here, too. It gets to a point where I really think you're just arguing for its own sake.

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So 1. Got it

And you still didn't answer the rape question but that's no surprise

 

[Dmar]

You can look at most things and say hmmmm that looks effective or hmmm that's silly. If the foundation and principals are sound then it should work. I say should because there is never a 100%. You test it in class, you break it down and look at the fundamentals. What you don't do is take my word for it because I tell u I tried it 10 times in real life and it works.
Reverse that however just because I stand in font of the class and show you how I did a flying reverse 360 back kick transferred into a headlock and its awesome I did it in 50 bar fights and never lost does that mean your going to pull it off and it works?

Funny thing about the term expert is it really means nothing. You can have 2 experts on the same topic give you totally opposite answers to the same problem. I see it in court all the time. You have your experts I have mine and we let the Jury decide who's experts are prettier and can entertain better. So of this is an opinion argument anyway.

My example to Steve was an FBI analyst that studied 1000s of Officer murders and assault and teaches an Officer safety class on it. To me he's an expert well to a lot of people hes an expert but to Steve hes not. That's ok its his choice. All an expert can do is give an opinion anyway.

Another Class I went to was with the head of the FBI's chemical agent program. Dude knew more about OC Spray, CN , CS gas, Mace, you name it if its a chemical that hurts he knew about it. Dudes not even in Law enforcement. He was deputized as a US Marshall because he transports large amounts of chemical agents all over the country to teach but he has no police powers he has never used the stuff on a real bad guy. He was at Waco however and the FBI trusted his Expertise to decide how much gas and where to pump it. Again not a cop at all yet trains 1000's of them. To me hes an expert. To some here because he never sprayed a real bad guy hes not. Your opinion but Id say your wrong

Wasn't the fire @ Waco linked to they type of gas grenades used? Uh maybe should of listned to someone with real world experience.

 

[Dmar]

Wasn't the fire @ Waco linked to they type of gas grenades used? Uh maybe should of listned to someone with real world experience.

So 1. Got it

And you still didn't answer the rape question but that's no surprise

I already answered the rape question. I would have thought i demonstrated how truly dumb a question it was even to you, but you refuse to submit to reality.