Can serious martial arts discussion take place along side non-serious non-art talk?

[Bob Hubbard]

The question's been raised on if serious martial arts discussion can exist on the same site as more "conversationalistic" discussions. Comparisions to other sites abound when the topic comes up. X is more serious, Y is friendlier, Z has less moderation, etc.

I believe that this site has an excellent balance between the serious, the casual and the conversational. Other sites have a lot of talk, but little "meat" in their art sections. Others then to steer you with an iron focus and gods help you if you stray.

So, I have several questions.

- How do we compare to other sites in your opinion? Feel free to name names here. If you think another site is doing something better than us, tell us who, how and why you think so.

- Where do you see us lacking, and what would you suggest we do to improve that area? There are some areas we will not compromise on. We will not go unmoderated, we will not become a big credential check point, and we will not add a porn forum.

- Can a board be both serious and friendly, or do you sacrifice one to achieve the other?


My desire, and the goal of the staff here is to be the best that we can be. We want to be the biggest, we want to be the friendliest and we want to be the most useful discussion site possible.

Please, add your 2 cents and give us some feedback as we plan what to do this year.

Thank you.

 

[rutherford]

The non-serious seems great for community building, and I enjoy engaging in it even if I haven't made 1,000s of posts. It's a good hook for repeat traffic, and I believe a good community builds site traffic. And, when you have good traffic the serious threads progress faster, become more interesting to read, leading to more traffic . . . etc.

However, I will admit to getting a bit peaved when the non-serious comes up in serious threads that I've subscribed to and plan to keep looking at for new ideas for a long time. At that point it becomes a signal to noise ratio issue, and for the most part I think that MT does the best job of balancing this than any other site.

How does this balance happen? By the will of the community. And a big stick. I never minded when Don Roley would scold people posting inside jokes in a discussion, especially when they were meant for him.

But I also don't mind when a poll about why men started martial arts quickly devolves into a thread about using MA to pick up chics. Because I think that gives you an answer right there. A lot of us guys are just having a really good time.

 

[terryl965]

Bob I'm here because of the site it leaves most of the ******** off the record.

The only thing that brothers me is the debate section and the ones trying to fraud bust onthis site, we as MA'ers our doing what we believe to be best for our school and ourself. I know I do not like being called a fake, I have been training for over forty years and I know I may seem addictive to TKD but I am.
Thanks for the wonderful site.
Terry

 

[Sarah]

I think a lot of us come to hang out here with like minded friends, and we do what we would do with any other friends, you talk about MA, we talk about silly stuff and have a laugh, we debate our points of view about more serious topics.

The difference is that for the most part we all respect and appreciate each other, so at the end of the day we are still friends.

Its not a site 'about' martial arts, its a site 'for' martial artists.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

If you have something meaningful to add to serious discussion and questions, then do it. I generally address "body training" issues because that is my area of knowledge. Beyond the occasional sassy comment just for grins that's about it.
Don't be a dick about stuff...people will disagree sometimes...just agree to that.

Don't know if that is clear or not...

Word.

 

[Sam]

Its not a site 'about' martial arts, its a site 'for' martial artists.

I couldn't have said it better.

I like MT because I can ask questions about katas while making fun of them at the same time. There aren't a lot of places you can do that. I can't think of any martial arts sites I like better than this one. This is the only place on the web that's ever gotten any of my money.

 

[Ping898]

Bob - I know that you said on another thread that The Study has become the most posted in section of MT and you are running Martial Talk not Political Talk. I will say from my POV, I don't post in the MA specific sections often, mostly cause I consider myself to still be a novice in my training and don't feel I have much value to add to a thread (plus I am not into putting ditto to someone else's post), but I read those sections religiously and take it into consideration and do try to take into account the point being made or thought process presented as I continue my MA studies.
I do post in the study more, mostly cause I figure everyone is entitled to my opinion and I like reading other peoples POV's and seeing link to where people get their information and what other people out there consider important in the world.

The point of this whole babble is I believe you can have serious and friendly co-existing. I think MT has done a pretty good job of maintaining that balance and I think you need some of those non-MA type dicussions to have a good well-rounded forum. I have been apart of other forums, ones way more serious than this (dealing with other topics) but all of the others without exception, I have usually after 6 months or so, stopped visiting and not gone back.

I don't know what to suggest for improvements, I have little imagination and have to admit, I always feel like MT gives me everything I want until you come up with a new site improvement I didn't even know I wanted until you put it in.....

 

[MJS]

I dont see why we can't have both...non MA as well as MA related topics. I dont frequent The Study as much as some others, but I have started threads there as well as contributed to threads that were already on-going. I think that having a wide variety of things that members can pick from, will continue to expand the forum. Limiting it to just one or the other may effect the numbers.

Just my .02.

Mike

 

[Xue Sheng]

Bob

Martial arts talk, like any place you have greater than 1 person involved it will eventually end up in some sort of disagreement. And it does not matter if it is in a non-martial arts area or a martial arts area. I do not think having a non-martial arts discussion on a martial arts page is a problem.

The empty flower forum has some very deep martial arts discussions, (mainly internal martial arts) and some pretty hard core martial artists as well and they also have a section for non-martial arts discussions.

The Yang family site has members only sections and a section to suggest new forums, but I doubt it gets much of Yang Cheng Fu Yang style Tai Chi. (Be careful asking anything non-Yang Cheng Fu Tai Chi question there) and there are still arguments on of these sites.

T

 

[Bigshadow]

Its not a site 'about' martial arts, its a site 'for' martial artists.

I like that! That is a perfect way to say that!

There is only one other martial arts site I visit but it is Bujinkan specific (Kutaki.org). Most of my BB time IS spent on this site. This is mainly due to the fact that I can discuss martial arts (Bujinkan specifically) and have other discussions about whatever, all in the same place. Outside of martial arts, I got to another couple of forums (everythingtreo.net and bodybuilding.com).

This is a good site, easy to navigate, the layout is one of the best I have seen so far, and I really wouldn't change a thing (if it were my site).

Well, I have to go train. cya!

 

[Marginal]

Bob I'm here because of the site it leaves most of the ******** off the record.

The only thing that brothers me is the debate section and the ones trying to fraud bust onthis site, we as MA'ers our doing what we believe to be best for our school and ourself. I know I do not like being called a fake, I have been training for over forty years and I know I may seem addictive to TKD but I am.
Thanks for the wonderful site.
Terry

The main trend that seems to come through with the fraudbusting is that the fraud invariably ends up banned, (it's like it's linked to their character in general somehow) and they manage to take a few otherwise good posters down with them in the process. Wouldn't be an issue if an identified fraud was simply banned once verifiable proof of fraud was presented. If they can't contribute positively to a MA discussion, why are they allowed to remain? Few reform. There's a difference between fostering friendly discussion and sheltering meat on a stick until it's impossible for anyone to bear. (And remember, even Chewbacca couldn't resist pawing at meat on a stick...)

 

[DavidCC]

MT does strike a very good balance between topics related to the mission of the site and topics on general subjects such as politics, religion, money, and pop culture. It seems to be a normal phase in the evolution of a web forum community.

What makes MT so special is the presence of Martial Artists of real distinction. It's like, if I went to Rolling Stone's forum, and Mick Jagger and Jack White and David Bowie had accounts and posted there and I could become friends with them or get even in arguments and be like "wow, David freakin Bowie knows who I am... he thinks I'm an a-hole, but WOW!"

I suspect you guys in that group mostly were here at MT a long time ago and were expressing and forming the core of a community based on shared values and interests. Kenpo, mostly, and Martial Arts culture. As MT grows, though, more of us nobodys have come along on the great equalizer the internet (by turning everything to crap) changes the community into something new. More diversity causes less cohesion, more friction, worse case all the founding members get pissed off and quickly realize the internet is a waste of energy... That has definitely not happened here.

Then there are places where the community is so large and diverse that there is so little common ground, it's almost like an infinite number of monkeys trying to write Shakespeare. "Oh wow this one was one word off of "Much Ado About Nothing. Look right here it says 'butt' where it should say 'heart'. So Close!"

There are plenty of places where you can go post all the 4-letter words and personal attacks you care to, and many of us have accounts there, too. Some good information can be found there, a littel, and it can be kindof cathartic to tell some guy to "go @&#@# his &%^# and &^##@ a %%##@". But mostly places like that are a cesspool.

MT is well balanced because it is well moderated IMHO. I haven't always seen eye to eye with them but - objectively - the quality of their work can be seen in the results.

"Good fences make good neighbors" and strong mods make good forums. Expect a tone or level of decorum and you can get it. The only more polite and on-topic forum I go to is at Kyusho.com. It is mostly private, open only to members of the kyusho organization. No politics or religion sections, and nobody loses their temper or starts a flame war. Discussions and disagreements? Some. A place I need to go to every day? No, not like MT.

 

[Kane]

To be honest, I seem to have more posts in The Study than any other board on MT! I think MT is a great political/religious/current event discussion board. Let's just enforce the rules of the forum instead of turning it into a fascist board . Maybe employ more mods to monitor the board but that is as far as it should go (heck you can hire me if you want ). Free speech is important in any forum, MT or not.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

- How do we compare to other sites in your opinion? Feel free to name names here. If you think another site is doing something better than us, tell us who, how and why you think so.

Please, add your 2 cents and give us some feedback as we plan what to do this year.

Thank you.

Budoseek
The only comparable general martial art's site to MT in my opinion is Budoseek. It definitely stays more tightly focused upon martial arts than we do. However as a result, it lacks a bit of the "community" feel we have here on MT. Also, disruptive members who hold legitimate high ranks are allowed to stay and cause trouble there for a much longer period of time than they are here and new, less experienced members are often driven away by such behavior. Staff also sometimes behaves in a way (direct insults, member signature lines changed to insulting phrases such as "pinhead") that would be foreign (thank goodness!) to MT. They are also too quick, IMO, to ban new members who get off to a rocky start. One area where Budoseek does excel in is that they have a core of experienced Martial Artists who are also Law Enforcement Officers or active military personnel of great experience. The best are Moderators and, goodness, they really contribute good stuff! Overall a great site.

Bullshido
Let's not go there. Fraud busting at it's absolute worst, IMO. Martial Arts (if I dare to call it that) at it's worst as well. Brings to mind the quote in "Leadership Lessons of Attila the Hun"; "... every Hun is valuable, if only to serve as a bad example". This site is a good lesson in everything we do NOT want to be, IMO.

E-Budo
Excellent source for Japanese Martial Arts. It shows the power of specialization. A little too much into fraud busting for my tastes and definitely cliquish as well. The very idea of "Mentors" would be foreign to them. However, they have some lessons to teach, IMO, on how to attract (and keep) top names. Good, if frustrating site.

Martial Talk
General martial art's site with the most potential, IMO, on the net. Sets and enforces professional conduct for staff and nurtures active and productive members far better than any other site on the net. Site does need to attract and keep more top level experts - but not at the expense of harmony. However, part of this is a result of top experts devoting time to sister sites Kenpo Talk and FMA Talk. Also needs to bring Martial Arts discussion back onto center stage (as a member and Mentor, I haven't been helping here lately, I admit!). Definitely has the most potential and strongest sense of community. Best overall general site on the net.

 

[MartialIntent]

I very much agree with Jonathan's post above and I'd also throw in Martial Arts Planet as having a great mix of lightweight and more studious discussion - but at the same time imHo - it suffers from a severe lack of not only moderation but maturity in many posts, consequently threads often descend into inane arguments over spelling and grammar and "come on over to my dojo and we'll see" type scenarios - I mean!

Personally I think here on MT, there's an increasing polarization between the "what's your favorite color of all time" type poll and the "Bush's Hidden Agenda" or pseudo scientific / political threads. For me, there's not always a great variety of "proper" martial arts discussion - to try to further the aims, principles and workings of our arts - in the middle of these two extremes. Obviously that's a reflection of the community on here and what folk want to say but this polarity means the ground in the center is wearing thin...

By that I mean that if you're looking for meaningful, deep discussion on your art [rather than "which technique is better"], dare I say it, you might not find that on MT? I've noted many familiar MT names on specialist arts boards which may perhaps allude to that truth...?

For all that, I'm still keen to hang around - and I'd like to add a word of praise to all the Mods because if there's one great thing about MT it's that it has set a high benchmark standard in it's posting etiquette which I haven't seen anywhere else. Keep it up!

Respects!

 

[FearlessFreep]

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The question's been raised on if serious martial arts discussion can exist on the same site as more "conversationalistic" discussions

Easy illustration, I usually disagree with Upnotrhkyosa on politics, and heck, on the whole subject of the 9/11 tower collapse I just plain things he's off the deep end, but I have a lot of respect for his MA experience and knowldege and read his MA posts with a lot of interest.

But then, I don't agree with the opinions on all topics of all my friends and yet they are still my friends because the common ground we share is worth putting up with the differences