Can i do multiple martial arts at the same time???? Please help

[Steve]

I actually wasn't making an argument one way or another on that point. I was just relating my own personal experience in my martial arts training.

Sounds good. But you're responding to my posts. My concern here is that you (and others) are making tangential points that aren't really addressing the OP's question, in response to my posts, in a way that makes it seem like you disagree with me. If you agree with me, great. Otherwise, I am mostly concerned that you are misunderstanding my point, because you respond to my posts with things that are irrelevant to my point.

So, once again, just to be clear and consistent. I mostly agree with you. AND, I don't think your points address the question of whether it's ACTUALLY harder to learn two styles at once than just one at a time. There is conventional wisdom, but my belief is that it's based on unsubstantiated biases. In fact, where there is data, it seems to indicate that when you learn things doesn't really matter one way or the other.

First I had to learn basic body awareness and control. Then I had to learn how to understand the underlying concepts of a martial art. Then I had to learn to see how other martial arts did things differently and let go of the notion that the first way I learned was necessarily the "correct" way. Then I had to get a bunch of experience with different systems and get practice moving my body in different ways and seeing how different arts operate.

I actually have students with no prior martial arts experience come in who do just fine studying 2-3 arts at once from the get go. Generally they have a certain degree of natural talent or athletic experience so they know how to use their bodies, time and motivation to put in the hours of hard work each week, and an open mind to absorb what each teacher is showing them. It took me longer to get to the point where I could do that, but I was starting out at the bottom of the bell curve for natural talent.

You raise an interesting point, which is that learning martial arts is, for most people, a hobby. Unless you are in a professionally violent job, chances are no one is making you train in martial arts. So, things like motivation definitely come into play. Folks don't generally choose to learn things they aren't motivated to learn, when it's their choice. I know that may seem like an obvious point, but it's relevant because if someone (like the OP) wants to learn two styles at once, we can presume he's motivated to do so.

Talent and natural ability are factors that will certainly affect how long it might take to learn styles, but that's relative to the person. Same with other factors... time, money, resources, access to qualified instruction. We agree that these are all factors to consider, that will affect how long it takes.

But ultimately, the question is whether it is more efficient to learn 2 things simultaneously or consecutively. The question is, would it take person A (who has some degree of ability and talent) longer to learn Style 1 and then Style 2 than to learn Style 1 and 2 at the same time? Jury's out, but if it's like learning languages, data suggests it doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My concern here is that you (and others) are making tangential points that aren't really addressing the OP's question, in response to my posts, in a way that makes it seem like you disagree with me.

Sorry about that. My initial response to you was based on reading your comment as skeptical of the critical period hypothesis. The other comment you quoted wasn't a reply to you, it was a reply to Isshinryuronin. It's somewhat tangential to the original post, but after a few pages of replies some thread drift is normal.

 

[Steve]

Sorry about that. My initial response to you was based on reading your comment as skeptical of the critical period hypothesis. The other comment you quoted wasn't a reply to you, it was a reply to Isshinryuronin. It's somewhat tangential to the original post, but after a few pages of replies some thread drift is normal.

I wasn't addressing critical period hypothesis at all. Others brought that up as a red herring. It's entirely irrelevant to my point.

Regarding tangents, I'm all for them, provided they aren't distorting anyone's position, intentionally or not.

On the topic of the critical period hypothesis, I think there's an interesting discussion to be had there. I mean, we can agree on the effect, but I question the presumptions about the causes of it, and also the inevitability of it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

High heels.

Don't actually change your height any more than jumping up in the air.
They do make your legs and butt look good though.

Hot tip for the fellas.

 

[Steve]

Hot tip for the fellas.

There's a reason cowboys wear them, and don't believe for a second that it has anything to do with riding a horse. It's all about looking good when you're doing the Texas Two-Step.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can i do multiple martial arts at the same time?​

Many years ago, when I started the University of Texas at Austin informal Kung Fu class, I invited a WC instructor to teach that class at the same time. The WC instructor taught the 1st hour of the class. I then taught the 2nd hour of the class. After 2 months, students came to me and complained that they were confused. After their explanation, I then realized the issue.

When the WC instructor taught them the 1st WC form, they were asked to

- move their arms and not much with their bodies.
- keep 90-degree angle between chest and arm.

When I taught my long fist, they were asked to

- move their bodies and not much with their arms.
- keep 180-degree angle between chest and arm.

After these many years, I still don't think one should learn 2 different MA systems (such as long fist and WC) at the same time.

 

[drop bear]

Not even about exceptional or stupid. Childrens minds have an affinity for new languages that is lost as we age.

Is it though. Or are we just lazy?

 

[Instructor]

I read in a book that it is best to achieve at least a first dan (or equivalent for that art) before learning a new one. I believe the book was Living the Martial Way: A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think, by Forrest E. Morgan but I could be mistaken. Before we had the interwebs we got wisdom like this from books. This one has informed much of my thinking over the years for better or worse.

 

[drop bear]

You can train multiple styles and be good at them. You just need to commit time and effort to the process.

I know guys who compete in multiple disciplines and they all have their idiosyncrasies. But still they seem to manage. And still also hold down jobs and have families as well.

I am also not sure where people are getting their definition of good or mastering an art from. As most martial artists are not very good. Regardless whether they do one style or ten.

 

[Steve]

I read in a book that it is best to achieve at least a first dan (or equivalent for that art) before learning a new one. I believe the book was Living the Martial Way: A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think, by Forrest E. Morgan but I could be mistaken. Before we had the interwebs we got wisdom like this from books. This one has informed much of my thinking over the years for better or worse.

For years, before the interwebs were a thing, people used to think that searing meat first was the best way to cook a steak... it seals in the juices. This was first written in a cookbook by a guy in the mid-1800s, and no one questioned it. It quickly become common knowledge... something that was obviously true, and in just about every cookbook after that, for about 150 years, people would repeat this without any critical evaluation.

Except that it isn't true at all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not even about exceptional or stupid. Childrens minds have an affinity for new languages that is lost as we age.

I vaguely recall reading about a developmental ability to learn new phonemes, which is lost in mod-late puberty (at least for most people). It’s postulated we cannot learn to hear/recognize new phonemes after a point, and this may explain why adults who move to a new country never lose their accent.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I read in a book that it is best to achieve at least a first dan (or equivalent for that art) before learning a new one.

Agree with you 100% there. The key word is foundation, foundation, and still foundation.

If you start cross training without building up your foundation first, you will have no foundation for the rest of your life. Foundation may define how far you can go in your MA career.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I read in a book that it is best to achieve at least a first dan (or equivalent for that art) before learning a new one. I believe the book was Living the Martial Way: A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think, by Forrest E. Morgan but I could be mistaken. Before we had the interwebs we got wisdom like this from books. This one has informed much of my thinking over the years for better or worse.

I’m not at all convinced that’s wisdom, when applied universally.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For years, before the interwebs were a thing, people used to think that searing meat first was the best way to cook a steak... it seals in the juices. This was first written in a cookbook by a guy in the mid-1800s, and no one questioned it. It quickly become common knowledge... something that was obviously true, and in just about every cookbook after that, for about 150 years, people would repeat this without any critical evaluation.

Except that it isn't true at all.

Is it better to sear afterwards?

 

[Steve]

Is it though. Or are we just lazy?

I know plenty of people who are lazy and also stupid. Some are exceptionally stupid.

In related news, there was a guy back in the late 1990s, Alvin Toffler said something like (paraphrasing), "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

I think this is a skill most people have intuitively as children and we get rusty as we get older.

Is it better to sear afterwards?

Pretty much. Depends on what you’re cooking. But no matter when you sear, it doesn’t lock in juices.

Personally, if I’m braising the meat, I sear it first. If I’m looking for a medium rare or something, like with a steak or prime rib, I reverse sear (aka sear at the end).

Point, though, is that conventional wisdom sounds very reasonable but may be butt *** wrong.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know plenty of people who are lazy and also stupid. Some are exceptionally stupid.

In related news, there was a guy back in the late 1990s, Alvin Toffler said something like (paraphrasing), "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

I think this is a skill most people have intuitively as children and we get rusty as we get older.

Pretty much. Depends on what you’re cooking. But no matter when you sear, it doesn’t lock in juices.

Personally, if I’m braising the meat, I sear it first. If I’m looking for a medium rare or something, like with a steak or prime rib, I reverse sear (aka sear at the end).

Point, though, is that conventional wisdom sounds very reasonable but may be butt *** wrong.

Thanks - I did get the actual point, but wanted to make sure I understood the cooking wisdom that had been included. I've always seared for taste. I'd heard the thing about sealing juices, but never saw much difference. I still tend to sear at the beginning, simply because it's easier to start with a really hot pan and let it cool some as the second side is searing. Not sure that's optimal.

 

[Steve]

Thanks - I did get the actual point, but wanted to make sure I understood the cooking wisdom that had been included. I've always seared for taste. I'd heard the thing about sealing juices, but never saw much difference. I still tend to sear at the beginning, simply because it's easier to start with a really hot pan and let it cool some as the second side is searing. Not sure that's optimal.

Nothing at all wrong with searing first, but for some things, reverse sear is better. Also, for steaks and roasts, if you don't dry brine, I recommend looking into that, too. It makes a difference, if you have the time.

Regarding what's optimal, it's about what is on the plate. Like martial arts, if you get a good result, you're doing it right. If you aren't, it doesn't really matter how much you know (unless you're a food critic). And the only way to get better is to do it. You'll find out what works for you and what doesn't.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nothing at all wrong with searing first, but for some things, reverse sear is better. Also, for steaks and roasts, if you don't dry brine, I recommend looking into that, too. It makes a difference, if you have the time.

Regarding what's optimal, it's about what is on the plate. Like martial arts, if you get a good result, you're doing it right. If you aren't, it doesn't really matter how much you know (unless you're a food critic). And the only way to get better is to do it. You'll find out what works for you and what doesn't.

Ive never gotten around to trying dry brining. I’ll give it a shot next time I’m doing either of those. Thanks!

 

[Steve]

Ive never gotten around to trying dry brining. I’ll give it a shot next time I’m doing either of those. Thanks!

Just make sure you do it well enough ahead of time, which is a little different for different types of meat. I will dry brine fish for 45 minutes or so. If you dry brine cod or halibut filets (probably tilapia, too, though I don't like that fish), they will be a little more firm and less prone to falling apart in the pan. Beef for at least 8 hours. Now I'm hungry and thinking about what's for dinner.

 

[Hyoho]

Hello there, i know this question is asked a lot, but i feel like i have a more specific version... kind of....

Basically, i have been doing karate for a while now, only a year or so, and im just over half way to black belt. I love kicking as well, so thought taekwondo might be a good option. Although, because some moves in karate and taekwondo are similar but not quite the same, would this interfere with my karate training? For example, the roundhouse kick or front kick are slightly different in these two styles i believe, so it may be a problem...


Any feedback is much appreciated as this is so frustrating to deal with...

Thanks a lot everyone

Yes it's possible. I have done it for many years. But the arts I do differs greatly. The problem is one tends to bleed in to the other with things you have yet to learn. Also the more advanced you become the harder it will become as you are beginning to specialize in specific things in an effort to reach fundamental perfection. It might not matter so much with gendai but if its something classical you do. It matters a lot.

Years ago I used to spar with a Taekwondo teacher that had spent two years doing karate in Japan. He was untouchable with kicks but his punches sucked.