Bunkai in Pyung Ahn O Dan (videos)

[Makalakumu]

I'm going to be starting a series of discussions in the Tang Soo Do forum about how we use certain techniques in our hyung for self defense. This short clip below is from a form called Pyung Ahn O Dan. This translates to Peaceful Confidence Number Five. The entire form belongs to a set of five forms created by Anko Itosu in Okinawa.

This particular clip is the opening move in the form. What do you see?

 

[MSUTKD]

Sounds good but, remember that Pyung Ahn does not really mean “peaceful confidence”. I can break down the Hanji for you later. Some people even call it “peaceful mind”. It really means “peace and tranquility”. It is like saying “Shalom”. So many of the form name “translations” are incorrect but, due to the lack of language skills, they have become dogma here. I will send you another article I have written on the forms.

ron

 

[Makalakumu]

Here is one interpretation that my students learn. The uke punches and the tori sidesteps, parries, and strikes to the short ribs. The tori then grabs the uke by the shoulder and catches the ukes arm in the crook of his arm. Twisting the hips, the tori winds his arm around, leading with the elbow twisting the ukes arm into a classic chicken wing.

 

[Makalakumu]

Sounds good but, remember that Pyung Ahn does not really mean “peaceful confidence”. I can break down the Hanji for you later. Some people even call it “peaceful mind”. It really means “peace and tranquility”. It is like saying “Shalom”. So many of the form name “translations” are incorrect but, due to the lack of language skills, they have become dogma here. I will send you another article I have written on the forms.

ron

I know the original name for the form was "Pinan" and that means "peaceful mind", but I did not realize that the hanji were so close. I was under the impression that the meaning was slightly changed. Please send me your article or post it in another thread in the TSD forum. That would be a great discussion!

Thanks...:asian:

upnorthkyosa

 

[MSUTKD]

John,

Pinan, Heian and Pyung Ahn use the same Chinese characters or Hanji (in Korean Hanja). There is no change just a misunderstanding. All of them mean "peace and tranquility". The "on" pronunciation is Pinan, Japanese say Heian and Koreans would say Pyung Ahn.
When you learn Chinese characters it unlocks many things in martial arts.

ron

 

[Makalakumu]

This clip is the closing set in Pyung Ahn O Dan. What applications do you see?

 

[NoSword]

upnorthkyosa, are you looking for ideas that we've had an opprotunity to test or just ideas in general? I've been spending time brainstorming ideas for applications from the katas I've learned but because I don't have a school to train at currently, I haven't had much of an opprotunity to test them out to see how vaild they really are. I don't want to just post untested ideas if that's not what you're looking for but if you're just brainstorming then I'll be happy to share.

 

[Makalakumu]

upnorthkyosa, are you looking for ideas that we've had an opprotunity to test or just ideas in general? I've been spending time brainstorming ideas for applications from the katas I've learned but because I don't have a school to train at currently, I haven't had much of an opprotunity to test them out to see how vaild they really are. I don't want to just post untested ideas if that's not what you're looking for but if you're just brainstorming then I'll be happy to share.

Please, share anything you can see in the moves that I posted. My goal is to post a series of threads that examine various applications from the forms.

 

[DavidCC]

Here is one interpretation that my students learn. The uke punches and the tori sidesteps, parries, and strikes to the short ribs. The tori then grabs the uke by the shoulder and catches the ukes arm in the crook of his arm. Twisting the hips, the tori winds his arm around, leading with the elbow twisting the ukes arm into a classic chicken wing.

I recently watched a video of Ryu Kyu Kempo's Master Oyata performing this same application. It looked like it hurt a LOT more when he did it, though. And the footwork was slightly different. He also applied it very quickly and it became a throw, and slowly and it was a lock.

 

[Makalakumu]

This clip is the closing set in Pyung Ahn O Dan. What applications do you see?

Here is an Ill Soo Shik I am developing for this move. Note, that it is still a work in progress...

 

[mantis]

is this guy considered good?
i mean is this technique done properly, or should it be done a different way?

 

[Makalakumu]

is this guy considered good?
i mean is this technique done properly, or should it be done a different way?

That is me, Mantis. And no, I'm not the best. However, if I posted perfect clips, there wouldn't be much to discuss...

What do you think?

I think that my uke is a bit too relaxed and that I should wake him up by making contact with my strikes...

 

[terryl965]

Upnorthkyosa I enjoyed your video clips, the one with the two boys, I see the one doing the shoulder lock to be a little timmend about coming around in the beginning to lock the hands together. I do understand they are childern and I'm not critisizing, just with adults the movement need sto be one fluid motion correct. I myself have never done a shoulder lock so I'm asking the proper technique, I kinda like this one, but before I try it would like to see it done by an adult or atleast give me the basic for adult to do it.
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

Upnorthkyosa I enjoyed your video clips, the one with the two boys, I see the one doing the shoulder lock to be a little timmend about coming around in the beginning to lock the hands together. I do understand they are childern and I'm not critisizing, just with adults the movement need sto be one fluid motion correct. I myself have never done a shoulder lock so I'm asking the proper technique, I kinda like this one, but before I try it would like to see it done by an adult or atleast give me the basic for adult to do it.
Terry

I tell the kids to put the locks on very slowly so they learn control. During my next class, I'll do the first application to one of my adult students who is able to do it a little faster. Maybe I'll throw in a few pics of the lock for details.

 

[NoSword]

Here is an Ill Soo Shik I am developing for this move. Note, that it is still a work in progress...

Sorry I haven't posted in a bit, I've been feeling pretty sick as of late. I agree with you about there being a neck break/head control takedown in there. I also believe that the motion could also be used as a takedown very similiar to a single leg pickup. In this case the arm doing the spearhand is the scooping hand while you post the choping hand against either the upper knee or hip of the leg you're picking up. The movement with the hands are exactly the same as in the form, but the stance is somewhat different in that you're crouched down somewhat as it would be impossible to reach the appropriate part of the leg otherwise.

 

[Makalakumu]

Sorry I haven't posted in a bit, I've been feeling pretty sick as of late. I agree with you about there being a neck break/head control takedown in there. I also believe that the motion could also be used as a takedown very similiar to a single leg pickup. In this case the arm doing the spearhand is the scooping hand while you post the choping hand against either the upper knee or hip of the leg you're picking up. The movement with the hands are exactly the same as in the form, but the stance is somewhat different in that you're crouched down somewhat as it would be impossible to reach the appropriate part of the leg otherwise.

I've experimented with that a bit and it turned into a single leg takedown without the tackle. I had trouble with it for a long time until I started turning in the direction of the leg I picked up, forcing uke to stand on something that was no longer there. The turn isn't in the form...so this application would be oyo. Still good and valid, though...enough so that I teach a single leg takedown at green belt.

Thanks for your thoughts. What do you think of the second clip?

 

[terryl965]

I tell the kids to put the locks on very slowly so they learn control. During my next class, I'll do the first application to one of my adult students who is able to do it a little faster. Maybe I'll throw in a few pics of the lock for details.

Thanks upnorthkyosa, I realy like the flow of that lock it looks simple enough to do, but usaully simple means complex in MA.
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

Thanks upnorthkyosa, I realy like the flow of that lock it looks simple enough to do, but usaully simple means complex in MA.
Terry

Does tkd do any kata with the "stacked fist" movement? If so, then this lock is probably in the art. What I like about that arm bar is that it can change into so many things if you miss the initial bar.

 

[Chizikunbo]

Dear Upnorth kyosa. I cannot get the videos to load, or I would reply.
--Josh

 

[Makalakumu]

What is happening when you try? Sometimes, not having the right updated software makes all of the difference. I would imagine that if these vids don't load, then you might have trouble with some others as well. Or you could try again in a little while. There might be server issues...FWIW.