Bullying in BJJ.

[Thems Fighting Words]

So I was just following links and came across this site: http://thewisegrappler.com/?gclid=CL-K65u2rpkCFRYdewodqCRKJw

Made me think, is bullying of older and/or non-competition school members really that common?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Good thing he's in Maryland and not California, else I'd have advised him against the use of "OG". Especially the t shirts and the writing style thereon.

 

[LordOfWu]

I just started bjj last summer at the ripe young age of 35. I have never felt bullied, harrassed, beat up, or anything else he described. At our school we are all trying to get better and help each other get better. I was thoroughly beaten (fairly and with no additional zeal than I would expect) by a brand new guy who'd spent quite a bit of time as a wrestler. When he submitted me I told him 'good job' and he was so incredibly respectful and thankful to me for rolling with him that I have rolled with him at least once a week since then. He had respect for the techniques I knew and he didn't, and I had respect for his talents and wanted to work against someone that made me focus so much on technique since he is bigger and stronger.

I don't have enough experience to say it doesn't happen, but I can say that I have not had anything like that experience.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have also never come across any type of bullying behavior.

 

[teekin]

I would think that in a reputable school the head instructor would have that purple belts *** if he saw that crap. That looked awful staged. :bs:I think this is a marketing ploy. That kinda **** just don't fly, it's just too disrespectful.
lori

 

[Nolerama]

Beating old people up is just a job... BJJ class is supposed to be fun ;P

(I'm kidding about the first part)

I think inherently, coming up with a DVD set geared towards a perceived weaker, older student that wants to defend against the bigger, stronger, younger student is kind of the whole point of BJJ. So what's the point of its existence?

Don't get me wrong, my cranked neck is telling me that strength and size coupled with wrestling of any kind amplifies effectiveness, but actual bullies within the class? I agree with the above statements.

There could be a contact level issue, which needs to be stressed over and over to your training partner. I've been dealing with those issues as of late, but sometimes, people just don't get it.

My DVD would be 5 seconds long... It would be titled: "Plain and Simple: Going Somewhere Else If Your Classmates Don't Seem to Get It."

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

I would think that in a reputable school the head instructor would have that purple belts *** if he saw that crap. That looked awful staged. :bs:I think this is a marketing ploy. That kinda **** just don't fly, it's just too disrespectful.
lori

I was linked to the add from MySpace. I thought it looked like a marketing ploy to get older guys who want to have a go at BJJ to buy his product. I'm a guy in my 30s who hasn't had much exposure to BJJ, so I have no idea if what this guy is advertising is true or not. So far the response is that he's at best over-reacting.

 

[teekin]

You know that is Fear Mongering of the worse kind.:rpo: In even the toughest schools, no scratch that, especially in the toughest schools the kind of behavior shown in that video would show disrespect not only toward the older student but also towards the purple's head instructor and the school itself. It's just too low class and pitiful to be taken seriously. I don't know in what hole you'd find a group like this but you wouldn't want to stay and train with them anyway!
In a worth while school anyone who has the balls to step out onto the mat will be welcomed and receive as much help as he/she wants or needs. The weaker you are the more people will be looking out for you Not to be roughed up. Bullies are seldom tolerated very long in a well run gym.
lori

 

[Ronin74]

My BJJ experience is very limited (my instructor moved back home only after I was a month into training), but I've also never seen the "bullying" that this guy was speaking of, and I'm not that much younger than that guy. In general, most of the BJJ schools/classes I've visited were geared towards a mutual improvement for all students, both young and old. I've seen them push each other, but they've always maintained a sense of respect between each other. I'd have to agree with Grendel in that none of the instructors I've seen would take that sort of crap. BJJ involves techniques that could create some serious injuries, and a good instructor puts the well-being of his/her students at the forefront.

In contrast though, I have to say that I have seen bullying in martial arts schools, and that's a sad thing to see- especially when people are out to learn. What's worse is that's a reflection on the school as well as the instructors. I've actually checked out gyms where I overheard instructors making very tasteless ethnic jokes, while sitting at the front desk. Those are the folks that hurt martial arts schools, and who usually don't last too long there, or in the art.

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

You know that is Fear Mongering of the worse kind.:rpo: In even the toughest schools, no scratch that, especially in the toughest schools the kind of behavior shown in that video would show disrespect not only toward the older student but also towards the purple's head instructor and the school itself. It's just too low class and pitiful to be taken seriously. I don't know in what hole you'd find a group like this but you wouldn't want to stay and train with them anyway!

I didn't actually bother watching the video cus just reading what he said made me question his honesty. Just wanted to see if I was right to think this guy was using BS tactics to sell a porduct. Although I haven't trained in BJJ, I have trained in some fairly rough and tumble places. But even in MT schools, I haven't seen older guys and/or non-competitors actively bullied. Obviously the instructor will pay more attention to the fight team, but actual bullying hurts the bottom line. What's sad is this guys must be pretty successful because his add is one I've run into a fair bit on My Space.

In contrast though, I have to say that I have seen bullying in martial arts schools, and that's a sad thing to see- especially when people are out to learn. What's worse is that's a reflection on the school as well as the instructors. I've actually checked out gyms where I overheard instructors making very tasteless ethnic jokes, while sitting at the front desk. Those are the folks that hurt martial arts schools, and who usually don't last too long there, or in the art.

If you're talking about certain TMA schools, then yeah I'd agree with you. I'm an Asian and I was a closed door student of a TMA school where the teacher wouldn't accept non-Asians as clsoed door students. It was sad really because I believe martial arts shouldn't be limited by race, religion or political creed.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

The video is an exaggeration but that type of stuff does happen. It just isn't said or shown that explicitly all the time. But you can pick up on it in some schools.

In some (many?) schools, the BJJ is taught in a hyper-competitive atmosphere. Spending five minutes on Sherdog or bullshido will show you this. You either are part of the process and further those goals or expect to get shunned or hurt. Often every move is done like you're in the Olympics or something. It's not difficult for beginners, especially older beginners that aren't obsessed with MMA or winning NAGA, to get hurt in the process.

So he's marketing a bit but the info he provides seems pretty solid and is needed in some areas.

 

[dnovice]

So I was just following links and came across this site: http://thewisegrappler.com/?gclid=CL-K65u2rpkCFRYdewodqCRKJw

Made me think, is bullying of older and/or non-competition school members really that common?

He's try to scheme people out of their hard earned cash.

 

[Dagney Taggert]

Funny, I was just reading about bullys on another unrelated website.

I wrote it there, and I'll write it again here.

A person who bullys other students carries around a giant neon-lit sign which reads, "I AM AN INSECURE, SCARED, PATHETIC, WHINEY, TANTRUM THROWING, COWARD!!"

 

[punisher73]

The video is an exaggeration but that type of stuff does happen. It just isn't said or shown that explicitly all the time. But you can pick up on it in some schools.

In some (many?) schools, the BJJ is taught in a hyper-competitive atmosphere. Spending five minutes on Sherdog or bullshido will show you this. You either are part of the process and further those goals or expect to get shunned or hurt. Often every move is done like you're in the Olympics or something. It's not difficult for beginners, especially older beginners that aren't obsessed with MMA or winning NAGA, to get hurt in the process.

So he's marketing a bit but the info he provides seems pretty solid and is needed in some areas.

It does happen, I know of two schools here where I live. One is GREAT, it is like a family and everyone helps out with everyone. The other one is a guy who teaches "MMA", he has very little actual BJJ training but trains his students in it anyways. The students there are almost all punks who want to go out and hurt people and get in fights. I know of another person who has competed in MMA and trains BJJ, he stopped teaching non-LEO people because he was started to get thugs showing up in class just wanting to learn BJJ to hurt people. It's not a far stretch to think that if you are in a large enough school, that an instructor might not be aware of it. In a smaller school they would be aware of it.

Remember, if you talk to people from Brazil, BJJ does not have a good reputation down there for many because many of the students go around picking fights to show how tough they are and it is associated with thugs (even just last year I talked with an exchange student from Brazil and asked him about BJJ and said about the same thing I have read)

 

[lklawson]

Remember, if you talk to people from Brazil, BJJ does not have a good reputation down there for many because many of the students go around picking fights to show how tough they are and it is associated with thugs (even just last year I talked with an exchange student from Brazil and asked him about BJJ and said about the same thing I have read)

I'm not sure how much BJJ is on the average Brazillian's radar. I have a buddy who married a Brazillian girl and now lives there. Because of a similar question about BJJ reputation in Brazil, I once asked her, through my buddy, "What do you think of Brazillian Ju Jitsu?" Her response was, "What's that?"

This was a couple of years ago now, so maybe things have changed since. <shrug>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Steve]

The school will take on the personality of the coach, and will attract students who are of like mind.

One thing that kind of irritates me is when people talk about bullying in BJJ and then use as an example a "guy who teaches MMA" but doesn't have a lot of BJJ experience.

 

[punisher73]

The school will take on the personality of the coach, and will attract students who are of like mind.

One thing that kind of irritates me is when people talk about bullying in BJJ and then use as an example a "guy who teaches MMA" but doesn't have a lot of BJJ experience.

I guess that was directed at me. I gave two examples, one was a BJJ instructor who no longer teaches publicly because he saw it attracting the wrong crowd. The other was given as an example because he advertises it as teaching BJJ and other arts, if you are new and don't know the difference then this is what you would assume BJJ is.

I could give another example of a place that I went to that trained BJJ and submission grappling. One of the head instructors was just a plain arrogant jerk who liked to sit around and rip on other people/styles. Some of the guys there were very nice and didn't reflect that, others...well, let's just say that birds of a feather.

Am I saying that all BJJ is like that? No, my first example is what I think BJJ schools mostly represent. A very close knit group that helps one another. But, there are bullying places out there just like every other MA.

 

[Steve]

I guess that was directed at me. I gave two examples, one was a BJJ instructor who no longer teaches publicly because he saw it attracting the wrong crowd. The other was given as an example because he advertises it as teaching BJJ and other arts, if you are new and don't know the difference then this is what you would assume BJJ is.

I could give another example of a place that I went to that trained BJJ and submission grappling. One of the head instructors was just a plain arrogant jerk who liked to sit around and rip on other people/styles. Some of the guys there were very nice and didn't reflect that, others...well, let's just say that birds of a feather.

Am I saying that all BJJ is like that? No, my first example is what I think BJJ schools mostly represent. A very close knit group that helps one another. But, there are bullying places out there just like every other MA.

Okay. Let me just say simply that in a discussion about BJJ mcdojos, guys with little experience teaching BJJ is relevant. In a discussion about bullying in BJJ, it's chaff. That's all. No big deal.

 

[punisher73]

Okay. Let me just say simply that in a discussion about BJJ mcdojos, guys with little experience teaching BJJ is relevant. In a discussion about bullying in BJJ, it's chaff. That's all. No big deal.

I see your point. I was NOT trying to slam BJJ, I studied it until my schedule didn't allow me to continue and thoroughly enjoyed it. The school I referenced that was so great was that school. I should have been more clear in my posts that some schools are advertising as BJJ and don't have as high of standards and people who don't know better get the wrong idea.

 

[Steve]

I see your point. I was NOT trying to slam BJJ, I studied it until my schedule didn't allow me to continue and thoroughly enjoyed it. The school I referenced that was so great was that school. I should have been more clear in my posts that some schools are advertising as BJJ and don't have as high of standards and people who don't know better get the wrong idea.

I didn't see you as slamming BJJ. McDojos are springing up all over now and it's a shame. Your point is very valid. I was pointing out that it was off topic.

In fact, locally, a guy I used to train with left our school in December of 08 as a 2 stripe blue belt. He opened his own school in February and is now listed as a 3 stripe purple, is listed as the owner/head instructor and is handing out rank. These things happen.