British Sailors released!!!

[sankaku-jime]

Just this article out, says it all really

Call that humiliation?


No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch

Terry Jones
Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian

I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.

It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.

And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.

The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!

What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.

And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".

What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.

As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.

· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python
www.terry-jones.net

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2047110,00.html#article_continue

 

[Drac]

It's 1140h our time and I've got the tv on, the BBC is at Heathrow airport waiting to show them landing in about 20mins! I can imagine how the families feel!

Caught a glimpse of that myself..Fox News is showing that here..

 

[MBuzzy]

It is wonderful that they were released and no one had to go get them.

I was very afraid that the politicians were going to drag more countries in to war.

 

[CoryKS]

Good article about Tehran's Victory.

 

[sankaku-jime]

Good article about Tehran's Victory.

whats good about it ?

I thought it was overly biased, full of lies and Propaganda and Spin.

 

[CoryKS]

whats good about it ?

I thought it was overly biased, full of lies and Propaganda and Spin.

One could say the same about the Terry Jones drivel. People have opposing viewpoints, and I believe there are those on this forum who will find it interesting. I posted it for them.

 

[sankaku-jime]

One could say the same about the Terry Jones drivel. People have opposing viewpoints, and I believe there are those on this forum who will find it interesting. I posted it for them.

true, but the Terry Jone article spoke a lot of truth, he highlighted how brutaly muslim captives are treated by the west compared to how well the British Soldiers were treated by the Iranians.

What specifaly did you think was good about the article you posted ?

 

[CoryKS]

true, but the Terry Jone article spoke a lot of truth, he highlighted how brutaly muslim captives are treated by the west compared to how well the British Soldiers were treated by the Iranians.

The Terry Jones piece was, as you put it, lies, propaganda, and spin. See? Mileage may vary.

What specifaly did you think was good about the article you posted ?

That it was a good analysis of the situation and what is likely to happen as a consequence of the way in which it was dealt with.

 

[sankaku-jime]

The Terry Jones piece was, as you put it, lies, propaganda, and spin. See? Mileage may vary.

I would disagree there, it is mostly the truth laid bare with very little in the way of lies propaganda, ok spin and a different angle.

Whereis your article was full of lies, for example these Sailors were captured in disputed waters, whether they were really in Iranian water we will probably never know the truth about that. Also they were not hostages merely captives.

 

[crushing]

One could say the same about the Terry Jones drivel. People have opposing viewpoints, and I believe there are those on this forum who will find it interesting. I posted it for them.

Both articles have their merits.

I liked the Terry Jones article. Like any number of witty skits, he took exceptions and applied them as rules. It's not as good as philosophers playing football or a slaptsticky as lumberjacks in drag, but it was an interesting take on the situation.

 

[CoryKS]

Both articles have their merits.

I liked the Terry Jones article. Like any number of witty skits, he took exceptions and applied them as rules. It's not as good as philosophers playing football or a slaptsticky as lumberjacks in drag, but it was an interesting take on the situation.

The skit that comes to mind is the Argument Sketch. As a political analyst, Jones makes a good actor.

 

[Tez3]

Ahttp://www.nypost.com/seven/04032007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/wheres_winston__opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htmnd this?

 

[jim777]

And This?

I think this is what you meant? I have to be honest here, I was stunned to see the British on TV apologizing. I would have thought it would take nothing less than welding torches to their testicles for that. But, we'll never know what really went on here, just what got pushed or leaked to the press. Maybe lives and limbs were threatened? I'm sure they did what they thought was best, and as long as they got home safe to their families, that's all that will matter to the families. I'm glad it seems to have worked out!

jim

 

[Tez3]

That's the one! thanks. I got it off an MMA forum (a UK one) and to say it's upset people is an understatement.

 

[jim777]

That's the one! thanks. I got it off an MMA forum (a UK one) and to say it's upset people is an understatement.

Peters is a retired General, and a real "chew up steel and spit out bullets" type. He's not your typical news reporter, and doesn't mince words on anything. He certainly isn't right all the time, but he does say things others won't which at least makes him interesting.

EDIT: Wikipedia says he was Lieutenant Colonel, not a General at all.

 

[Tez3]

Peters is a retired (three star?) General, and a real "chew up steel and spit out bullets" type. He's not your typical news reporter, and doesn't mince words on anything. He certainly isn't right all the time, but he does say things others won't which at least makes him interesting.

I wonder how many of his people he got killed? A modern soldier is more than a mindless moronic killing machine.

As I posted earlier we were waiting to see if the soldiers killed today were ours ( from Catterick Garrison). They were. Two were women. One from the Intelligence Corps and one from the Royal Army Medical Corps. Of the two men one was also from the RAMC, the other from the Lancashire Regt.The names haven't been released yet but I already I know I will know who the medics and the intel girl are.

This is where I live and work
http://www.army.mod.uk/catterick_garrison/index.htm

 

[jim777]

I don't know much about him, only what I've gleaned from the ocassional read of the NY Post and Wikipedia.

 

[Sukerkin]

Well, there's a link I wish I'd never clicked ... someone needs a reality check I think (did that chap ever actually serve in a military, of any description, and actually do anything (not counting flying a desk)?).

 

[jetboatdeath]

Yes it is great they got released but, why is every one over looking the fact they were taken in the first place? Don’t you think there should be some repercussions for taking them? Yea I here all you guys now, we take prisoners of war all the time. The main thing here is I was not aware of Britton being at war with Iran. To me that’s like someone snagging a kid off the streets, bringing them back in a week and saying, hey look what a good person I am for bringing them back.

 

[Tez3]

Yes it is great they got released but, why is every one over looking the fact they were taken in the first place? Don’t you think there should be some repercussions for taking them? Yea I here all you guys now, we take prisoners of war all the time. The main thing here is I was not aware of Britton being at war with Iran. To me that’s like someone snagging a kid off the streets, bringing them back in a week and saying, hey look what a good person I am for bringing them back.

Britain isn't at war with Iran and the Navy personnel taken weren't prisoners of war. I'm sure they could have fought off thier captors but what exactly would that have proved? That they were dead idiots? I think any repercussions will probably be done in secret which is unsatisfying for us but we don't actually want another front opening up in the Middle East and yet more bodies coming back however much Bush wants his war with Iran. However unpalatable dealing with Iran is after this, for the good of the whole it's better that we do deal with them as opposed to fighting them.