Breaking News: Daedo to be used at the London 2012 Olympics

[dancingalone]

Actually no, it doesn't bother me. When I watch matches I can see the hard work (or lack thereof) in the competitors. It is not boring and if you think it is, then you probably do not have a good grasp of modern taekwondo training methods, or strategy. There is all kinds of stuff going on during a match, even when the competitors are not kicking each other.

<shrugs> Respectfully, you could say the same thing about competitive chess matches. Or baseball and hockey, two declining sports, albeit they certainly retain enough popularity for their professional athletes to earn millions.

I've said this before, but it seems that Olympic rules TKD competition is an insular sport. The only people who watch it are those who are also involved with it somehow. This needs to change if TKD is ever to become a more popular sport without risk of removal from the Olympics. How that happens I have no idea, but I myself find the matches boring and I would not watch them presented with the many other entertainment options I have. Yes, I freely admit I have no idea what the strategy is in the ring. I don't think that matters. Olympic TKD needs to win over potential audience members like me, a fellow martial artist, if it is to reach a level of popularity where tv ratings are sustainable and TV executives would actually consider airing it as programming.

 

[puunui]

Yes I said that but that is not what this is about. And yes they are making excuses. LaJust can't make a bad fighter good and a good fighter should be able to adapt to the situation. If not then oh well I guess he/she was not that good after all.

I guess winning four or five world championships and then losing because of LaJust means that you are not that good afterall.

Again, not working and not even real are vastly different things. That is mumbo jumbo to me. But then that's me.

yeah, that is just you. But I did give another example, one about using tennis racket strings that break. My comment would be the strings break so the powers that be are working on not allowing those strings to be mandatory for everyone. Your comment would be the strings break for everyone, that you have to adapt, and that if you cannot adapt and play with broken strings, even if you won four or five grand slam events, oh well I guess he/she was not that good after all. Is that mumbo jumbo too?

My Master can decide to do what he chooses as can I. I am a Level 1 coach and my feedback is just a important as anyones, Master or not. Anyone that has any stake in this sport is just as important as anyone, from the top to the bottom.

Yeah, and you do have a lot at stake, especially with regard to "your" students, right?

Well where is the constructive feed back in it does not work?

Constructive feedback, you mean when you say that the four time world champion wasn't that good afterall, because he lost wearing lajust at the Korean team trials this year?

My point was in simply reporting that LaJust doesn't work, and that people at the policy making level were taking efforts to see that LaJust isn't used at the London Games, because is a lot at stake.

And you already said Sir is not anything that you use or expect to be used.

that's not what I said. Go re-read it.

 

[puunui]

More efforts need to go into getting coverage for TKD. Is it becasue the powers that be don't promote or market to well? Maybe we need to cut some of the fat at the top and use that money to bring in some good marketing people. It is all about promotion and for some reason USA TKD does not do that.

There have been efforts in the past, by USTU, to have Taekwondo broadcast on TV. The first was I believe the 1981 World Games in Santa Clara which was featured on ABC Wide World of Sports. Next was ESPN coverage of the US Olympic Festival. Last was the coverage of 1993 World Championships in New York. These might be before your time. Then there are the Olympic Games coverage.

The WTF does have WTF TV, which broadcasts over the internet WTF International Events. I believe there is also a TV committee. The competition rules have also been greatly changed, adding points for head shots, spinning, etc., efforts designed to make matches more exciting for the television audiences. Use of electronic scoring systems is also an effort to make things more attractive to a TV audience. These were all suggestions made by a WTF Ad Hoc Committee around 2004-2005.

 

[Archtkd]

Now we are on to something. More efforts need to go into getting coverage for TKD. Is it becasue the powers that be don't promote or market to well? Maybe we need to cut some of the fat at the top and use that money to bring in some good marketing people. It is all about promotion and for some reason USA TKD does not do that.

I know that in Europe they do get air time but not here. Network execs will put anything on TV, they just need to know they will have sponsors and make money from them. Sponsor need to know that people will watch.

I thought ESPN3's coverage of the last six days of the just concluded World Championships was good. Along the broadcasts and commentary they also interviewed some Taekwondo greats including France's Pascal Gentile and Steve Lopez.

http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=178810
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=178818
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=178822
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=178828
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=183870
http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=178844

 

[ATC]

<shrugs> Respectfully, you could say the same thing about competitive chess matches. Or baseball and hockey, two declining sports, albeit they certainly retain enough popularity for their professional athletes to earn millions.

I've said this before, but it seems that Olympic rules TKD competition is an insular sport. The only people who watch it are those who are also involved with it somehow. This needs to change if TKD is ever to become a more popular sport without risk of removal from the Olympics. How that happens I have no idea, but I myself find the matches boring and I would not watch them presented with the many other entertainment options I have. Yes, I freely admit I have no idea what the strategy is in the ring. I don't think that matters. Olympic TKD needs to win over potential audience members like me, a fellow martial artist, if it is to reach a level of popularity where tv ratings are sustainable and TV executives would actually consider airing it as programming.

Your statement is very true. However millions of kids all over this country participate in TKD. The problem is that not all of the kids really spar with any effort on getting to that level. I know that at our dojang we have over 200 students but only 15 or so competitors. None and I mean none of the 180+ other students even come out to watch any matches. They look in awe at the competition team when they train, but that is about it.

The other kids only spar once a week and that is because they have to. I look at many of them and they are petrified when they know they have to spar. Many of them just kick air or run in and hug and dance with each other until the STOP command is given.

The problem is that most schools will only have a few students that even care about sparring. Most kids are there for confidence building or to get in shape. The few that want to spar don't have the drive to put in the time to get any good at it. That only leaves the select couple that are at every school that are good and may watch.

My kids are both Jr. Olympic Champs and US. Open medalist. They don't even watch the sport. They only watch when told to as a training tool.

Football, Baseball and other big money sports all put on a show. Plus they represent a town, a city, or a state at each level. So families and people get attached to teams based on location. Hey that was my school or that is my town, or city, or state. They have an emotional tie to the team, track runner, or whatever.

With that said it looks like the colleges will have to get more involved. And come up with team names and the like. The Stanford Cardinals Taekwondo Team vs. The UCLA Bruins TKD Team. Then you would wear team colored unis and such, not just plain white. You have to give people some tie to the athlete and the athlete some tie to the people. But again this is all marketing.

Sports are cultural. Why do you think Soccer is having such a hard time catching on in the US. Millions of kids play but till this day it is not a US favorite yet it is a world favorite. TKD has to look at the culture of the US and then come up with a plan. As it is now it is just something you did as a kid.

MMA has caught on because it looks like fighting and in this culture, everyone loves to see a good fight. Show some blood and the Americans eat it up. WWF, or is it WWE, or RAW...who cares, it is fake as fake can be, but it looks cools cause they look like they are fighting and they draw some blood from time to time. Culture, Culture, Culture.

 

[RSweet]

Discussions used to make the USTU minutes. Sounds like another violation of the USAT bylaws. My understanding was that CEO has control over day to day operations, and the Board has control over policy matters. Signing a contract with LaJust or any electronic scoring system before it is announced which one is selected for the Olympic Games sounds like an abuse of authority, or at the very least a poor decision, whoever made the call. You and other directors are in the best position to inform the USOC regarding this matter. I am sure they are very interested in a CEO who overstepped his authority which may cost the US medals at the London Games.

The minutes which have disappeared from the USAT website - 2007 and before had comments and discussions. Then someone figured out that I was deliberately getting things into the minutes - like for example where it was brought up to the CEO that the policies and procedures for committees needed to be posted on the website according to the bylaws and he was to follow up on that. Needless to say, only the now assassinated Nominating & Governance Committee ever posted theirs. Women's Committee did theirs but USAT would never post them - he had a thing about Radical Feminists. AAC 5 years later still has no posted policies and procedures. In April 2008 in Houston, we set a succession plan and they refused to vote on it formally so it wouldn't be in the minutes of the meeting - because they didn't want to hurt the feelings of the staff members not selected. I am not kidding about this stuff.

USOC is very interested in this CEO and what is happening. I have heard "they can't do that." a lot. I have very good reason to believe that the USOC has been kept up to date on everything. I am positive they have a lot of documentation also. I am pretty sure they are just waiting in the background for the outcome of all these complaints. The sad thing is that the USOC audit only covers transactions involving USOC money.

WTF appears to be hanging in wait also. Since USAT lost out on all bids recently.... Heard he was not very popular in Korea. In fact, I was told that the day after Bin Laden was killed, he was shaking the hands of total strangers and telling them what a wonderful day it was as we have killed Bin Laden. Seems some of those strangers were from countries not real fond of the USA.

Back to LaJust scenario. What he saw was fast cash when he needed it - which is really strange to me as 2009 should have been the year USAT climbed out of the red. US Open was $90K over budget for income, the KKW test brought in 6 figures and was not included in the budget - Texas kicked in money to reimburse for Austin expenses, with U24 trip postponed $40K should have been sitting in the bank as USOC had already fronted the cash for that trip which was not taken until 2010. Makes no sense that 2009 ended up in the red again unless they over spent the budget big time. There was enough unbudgeted income that year to take the financials into the black unless they way overspent. Can't tell you the facts, as when I questioned why events categories were way over budget in December 2009, example catering about $90K over - I was told that the reason was not that they overspent, it was that Texas only paid for certain things and not for others.

I don't see that there is enough money to buy them out of the LaJust contract - if they wanted to. Whole thing is a cluster.

 

[dancingalone]

Your statement is very true. However millions of kids all over this country participate in TKD. The problem is that not all of the kids really spar with any effort on getting to that level.

From my perspective, it's a totally different activity from what I practice, rather than necessarily being a distinction of intensity or quality. The specialized kicks, the lack of attention to handwork (yep, I understand punches are scoring more according to some here), etc. Olympic TKD sparring is quite a contrast compared to how non-Olympic schools spar. I think people outside of the Olympic circle have a hard time relating to what they see visually when they catch a match on Youtube or whatever.

Football, Baseball and other big money sports all put on a show. Plus they represent a town, a city, or a state at each level. So families and people get attached to teams based on location. Hey that was my school or that is my town, or city, or state. They have an emotional tie to the team, track runner, or whatever.

With that said it looks like the colleges will have to get more involved. And come up with team names and the like. The Stanford Cardinals Taekwondo Team vs. The UCLA Bruins TKD Team. Then you would wear team colored unis and such, not just plain white. You have to give people some tie to the athlete and the athlete some tie to the people. But again this is all marketing.

Sports are cultural. Why do you think Soccer is having such a hard time catching on in the US. Millions of kids play but till this day it is not a US favorite yet it is a world favorite. TKD has to look at the culture of the US and then come up with a plan. As it is now it is just something you did as a kid.

I understand your general premise here and I mostly agree. I don't see TKD ever being a big college sport. I am a huge University of Texas sports fan, yet I sure won't be watching many minor sports like womens' soccer or coed swimming. Maybe the idea that the entire country could get behind a US TKD team every four years at the Olympics is feasible.

MMA has caught on because it looks like fighting and in this culture, everyone loves to see a good fight. Show some blood and the Americans eat it up. WWF, or is it WWE, or RAW...who cares, it is fake as fake can be, but it looks cools cause they look like they are fighting and they draw some blood from time to time. Culture, Culture, Culture.

Well, people can at least relate to MMA on a visceral level. It generally looks like what lay people expect a fight to look like. You'll notice the casual fans find the slow, strategic 'Royce Gracie' type victories boring - they'd rather see someone get knocked out.

 

[puunui]

Your statement is very true. However millions of kids all over this country participate in TKD. The problem is that not all of the kids really spar with any effort on getting to that level. I know that at our dojang we have over 200 students but only 15 or so competitors. None and I mean none of the 180+ other students even come out to watch any matches. They look in awe at the competition team when they train, but that is about it.

You have to look at the type of student that generally that is attracted to Taekwondo and ends up staying, at least today. They are not always the most athletic or the most aggressive or self confident. If they are athletic, then they may do Taekwondo up to black belt, but then we lose them to other sports, including but not limited to MMA.

So the ones that do stay, generally, but not always, are those with less than ideal athleticism and less than ideal confidence and aggressiveness. Instructors know this and so they gear the school towards this level of achievement. It is not conducive to developing an Olympic caliber program.

I've seen all kinds of efforts over the years to make Taekwondo more attractive or exciting to a television audience. Most efforts have failed. We are now attempting to recycle some discarded ideas, like giving more points for a head kick. That is nothing new.

Taekwondo competition is what it is.

 

[puunui]

From my perspective, it's a totally different activity from what I practice, rather than necessarily being a distinction of intensity or quality. The specialized kicks, the lack of attention to handwork (yep, I understand punches are scoring more according to some here), etc. Olympic TKD sparring is quite a contrast compared to how non-Olympic schools spar. I think people outside of the Olympic circle have a hard time relating to what they see visually when they catch a match on Youtube or whatever.

I think that you are in the minority at this point. I think in general, Kukki Taekwondo schools or at least schools which are run by instructors with Kukki Taekwondo instructors are in the majority. I know that is how it is in my state. Thousands of Master Instructors flooding in from Korea since the 70's has saturated the US.

I understand your general premise here and I mostly agree. I don't see TKD ever being a big college sport. I am a huge University of Texas sports fan, yet I sure won't be watching many minor sports like womens' soccer or coed swimming. Maybe the idea that the entire country could get behind a US TKD team every four years at the Olympics is feasible.

There has been some coordinated efforts on both coasts to start up collegiate taekwondo competition. The most successful I believe is the one situated in the Northeast. The west coast tried the same thing, with UC Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, etc., but I think that sort of died down. The problem has always been getting NCAA recognition, something that also was first attempted in the 1970's by the Yudo/Taekwondo instructor group.

Well, people can at least relate to MMA on a visceral level. It generally looks like what lay people expect a fight to look like. You'll notice the casual fans find the slow, strategic 'Royce Gracie' type victories boring - they'd rather see someone get knocked out.

Does the stand up MMA game remind you of the type of sparring you are used to, punches to the face, or is that different too? In my opinion, leg kicks changes everything.

 

[puunui]

I've said this before, but it seems that Olympic rules TKD competition is an insular sport. The only people who watch it are those who are also involved with it somehow. This needs to change if TKD is ever to become a more popular sport without risk of removal from the Olympics.

I wonder how much an Olympic sport must be appealing to a television or spectator audience to remain in the Olympic Games. Certainly there are other sports that are "boring" to watch that remain in the Games. I will say this though, whenever I watch other sports, I generally can tell who the winner is, even when I am watching for the first time and I don't know what the rules are. I think that is what is missing from Taekwondo, being able to intuitively tell who the winner is without knowing what the rules are. Part of it is that we are constantly changing the rules. Either that, or we use electronic scoring equipment like LaJust which effectively change the rules.

How that happens I have no idea, but I myself find the matches boring and I would not watch them presented with the many other entertainment options I have. Yes, I freely admit I have no idea what the strategy is in the ring. I don't think that matters. Olympic TKD needs to win over potential audience members like me, a fellow martial artist, if it is to reach a level of popularity where tv ratings are sustainable and TV executives would actually consider airing it as programming.

I don't know if you ever saw it on ESPN, but there was a series called Pro TKD which I am told was very popular, to the point where ESPN would repeatedly show episodes, I think even years after the series ended. The matches used modified WTF rules. In that show I think people could tell who the winner was even if they didn't know the rules.

 

[dancingalone]

I think that you are in the minority at this point. I think in general, Kukki Taekwondo schools or at least schools which are run by instructors with Kukki Taekwondo instructors are in the majority. I know that is how it is in my state. Thousands of Master Instructors flooding in from Korea since the 70's has saturated the US.

Not in Texas. Not in the southeastern part of the country either. While there are many successful KKW schools (which by the way, I do not equate necessarily with Olympic rules sparring/competition) there, they are outnumbered by a wide margin by independents and other groups like ATA, etc.

The type of sparring strategy and technique needed to be successful in Olympic rules is very, very unique compared to how other TKD people spar, including people who fly under the KKW flag.

There has been some coordinated efforts on both coasts to start up collegiate taekwondo competition. The most successful I believe is the one situated in the Northeast. The west coast tried the same thing, with UC Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, etc., but I think that sort of died down. The problem has always been getting NCAA recognition, something that also was first attempted in the 1970's by the Yudo/Taekwondo instructor group.

With Title IX scholarship mandates, I could see schools maybe adding a women's TKD team, but certainly not a male team.

Does the stand up MMA game remind you of the type of sparring you are used to, punches to the face, or is that different too? In my opinion, leg kicks changes everything.

The MMA people I am familiar with are heavily influenced by muay thai ideas and no, that's not what I practice. We do allow leg checks in sparring in my dojo, although the contact is nothing like what you'd see in a kickboxing or MMA match.

 

[dancingalone]

I wonder how much an Olympic sport must be appealing to a television or spectator audience to remain in the Olympic Games. Certainly there are other sports that are "boring" to watch that remain in the Games. I will say this though, whenever I watch other sports, I generally can tell who the winner is, even when I am watching for the first time and I don't know what the rules are. I think that is what is missing from Taekwondo, being able to intuitively tell who the winner is without knowing what the rules are. Part of it is that we are constantly changing the rules. Either that, or we use electronic scoring equipment like LaJust which effectively change the rules.

How about just letting the fighters go at it for a full 2-3 minutes? Declare the winner at the end of the match through judges or through the electronic scoring if it is accurate enough. I find the breaks and resets very staccato and nonrhythmic. Makes it hard to get into the action...

I don't know if you ever saw it on ESPN, but there was a series called Pro TKD which I am told was very popular, to the point where ESPN would repeatedly show episodes, I think even years after the series ended. The matches used modified WTF rules. In that show I think people could tell who the winner was even if they didn't know the rules.

Clips from that have been posted here a few times. Yes, I enjoyed it. I also liked the Chuck Norris World Combat League too, although it failed financially after only 1 season.

 

[puunui]

How about just letting the fighters go at it for a full 2-3 minutes? Declare the winner at the end of the match through judges or through the electronic scoring if it is accurate enough. I find the breaks and resets very staccato and nonrhythmic. Makes it hard to get into the action...

I don't think the concept of rounds is the issue. We have rounds is most combative sports, wrestling, judo, boxing and even MMA. How Pro TKD handled it was that players were penalized if they did not initiate within five or ten seconds, I forget exactly.

 

[puunui]

Not in Texas. Not in the southeastern part of the country either. While there are many successful KKW schools (which by the way, I do not equate necessarily with Olympic rules sparring/competition) there, they are outnumbered by a wide margin by independents and other groups like ATA, etc.

Start giving people Kukkiwon certification, and that may change. In my own state, the majority of schools were ITF. But then we liberally issued Kukkiwon certification to the head instructors, who in turn promoted their students using Kukkiwon certification. Our state championships were a mish mash of forms and also sparring styles, pyong ahn, chang hon, jhoon rhee sparring equipment, cross over uniforms, itf trim, full moo duk kwan trim, etc. Within ten years, the vast majority were doing Taeguek poomsae, wearing v necks, and sparring with official gear.

 

[LaJust]

Due to ongoing litigation LaJust cannot comment on the decision regarding the PSS product to be used at the 2012 London Olympics. However, we wish to keep our customers and those who have made investments in our equipment informed that based on contractual obligations made by the WTF to LaJust we did receiving this ruling from the Korean court as follows:

Korean Court sentenced today that WTF shoult not use Daedo PSS in 2012 WTF London Olympic quailification which will be held from 30th June to 3rd July due to contract violation with LaJUST and if they will use it in that competition WTF should pay almost US$1,000/every match for compensation to LaJUST.​

http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/site/new...ew&PHPSESSID=a7a2c28e776e731296e42b9fb1b48c54

http://taekwondo.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/06/27/2011062701636.html

You can follow the Korean twitter posts for more updates:

https://twitter.com/#!/lajustsport

 

[Tez3]

So you guys don't get the eurosports network. That is where I have watched (online stream from someone) a great many TKD broadcasts. And it was in english the feeds I watched with, I took to be British, comintators.

Eurosport have three satellite channels here, one in HD, they cover a huge range of sports. I watched the Winter Olympics just with them, good coverage of all disciplines and knowledgable commentators so I have high hopes of the London Olympics. Sky also have four sports channels which carry a lot of sports including some I've never heard of! I think TKD and Judo will be well covered from London at least with these channels.

 

[mango.man]

Due to ongoing litigation LaJust cannot comment on the decision regarding the PSS product to be used at the 2012 London Olympics. However, we wish to keep our customers and those who have made investments in our equipment informed that based on contractual obligations made by the WTF to LaJust we did receiving this ruling from the Korean court as follows:

Korean Court sentenced today that WTF shoult not use Daedo PSS in 2012 WTF London Olympic quailification which will be held from 30th June to 3rd July due to contract violation with LaJUST and if they will use it in that competition WTF should pay almost US$1,000/every match for compensation to LaJUST.​

http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/site/new...ew&PHPSESSID=a7a2c28e776e731296e42b9fb1b48c54

http://taekwondo.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/06/27/2011062701636.html

You can follow the Korean twitter posts for more updates:

https://twitter.com/#!/lajustsport

Nice. "Our equipment is crap and has been exposed as crap to the whole world and rather than making it better we are going to sue to make sure that a superior PSS is not used instead of our crap."

Your equipment sucks and you know it sucks and the TKD world would be much better off if you would just go away.

IMHO.

 

[Truescore East]

Just so everyone knows. The Lopez's have absolutely no interest in Daedo or Truescore. When Daedo USA was first started years ago all of the Lopez's were part owners a very small part. A couple years after the start of Daedo USA they were removed as owning any part of Daedo USA and have never owned any part of Daedo International or Truescore. So everyone is clear the Lopez's have absolutely no monitary investment at all in either Daedo USA, Daedo International or Truescore.
I wanted to make this clear since every once in a while it keeps coming up. Also all conversations with Jean concerning Electronic scoring was always favoring Lajust not Daedo. The Electronic scoring came out after they were no longer part of Daedo USA.
Also anyone purchasing from Daedo USA is buying from a non authorized Daedo represenative who is not capable of ordering additional Daedo supplies.
I know all of this because I was a major shareholder in Daedo USA and Daedo Florida and am now the Daedo/Truescore Distributor for the Southeast. www.truescoreeast.com .

Nick J. Yacobucci
Daedo/Truescore Distributor