So to speak.
Bo Staff training at home
- Thread starter Jedmus
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- bo staffs martial arts weapons
I disagree. We should all strive to use the proper words, whether the language is English or something else.
"Whatever works" inevitably leads to a downward spiral. I feel it is important to attempt to do whatever I'm doing to the best of my ability. We should strive for this with our students also.
TSDTexan
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Bows, walks away.
Tortoise
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Don't know what your style of karate is, but I have used this video and found it helpful.
Kenpo Staff Set |
Good luck!
BUCKNAKEDBULLFROG
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This may sound dumb but i have used the bo in kata simply by replacing blocks or punch's with the bo as a blocking arm or punching fist.It will help you develop a feel for the bo.
JR 137
Grandmaster
I'm a huge fan of Nishiuchi and his Okinawan weapons. If you have no one to directly teach you and really want to learn, follow this guy...
lklawson
Grandmaster
Are those the same purists who get cranky when some newb talks about loading ammunition in the "clip" of his pistol or get cranky when a newbie refers to his "Hungarian Makarov" and then the purists proceed to lecture him on his terminology, preferably with a belittling tone, instead of helping him with the question he asked? I think I've met them. I've seen them run off people.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
lklawson
Grandmaster
A "downward spiral" of what? Of people using different terminology?
Evidence please of how this is a "bad thing" that hurts people in the long run.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
A downward spiral of transmission. If you are satisfied with using "whatever works" then how do you know you are faithfully transmitting the information that you believe you are? If I tell you that 12 inches is equal to my foot size, then I show people learning from me to measure using their foot size, since that is "whatever works" for me. Now those people go on to teach that measurement is done with their foot size, but it is no longer correct because it's MY foot that's equal to 12 inches, not theirs. Admittedly, this is a tailor made scenario, but it is closely akin to what I've seen happen a lot in the martial arts.
Here's a better example that happened to me a number of years back. We were renting space in a karate studio for some extra practice time. Some of the senior karate students were working on a wrist lock, but the one woman in the group just couldn't make it work. The problem was that the way the most senior of them had learned it required quite a bit of muscle. Being a large guy, he had no problem doing it, it was "whatever worked" for him. Since the woman in their group didn't have the necessary upper body strength, she couldn't do the technique, even though the technique would have been effective if done correctly. However, the fellow showing the others never learned it correctly since he didn't have to do it properly to make it work. Once I showed them how to properly engage the joints, they were astounded. The senior that was showing the others had no idea, and that's how you get into a downward spiral using "whatever works" rather than what is correct.
All you have to do is look around at the plethora of American karate or ninja schools that purport to be Japanese arts. Their usage and pronunciation of Japanese words in their arts are sometimes laughably ridiculous. I never said that it would "hurt" people, I merely said that settling for "whatever works" rather than what is correct will lead to degradation of what is being taught, whether it is actual techniques or simple pronunciation. I believe that if someone is going to teach an art that uses terminology in a foreign language, then they should use it correctly. If a person isn't interested in using it correctly, then they should use their native language rather than incorrectly using a foreign language.
In my opinion, we should all make it a habit to strive for excellence, and never to strive for "whatever".
Of course, that's just my opinion. Others may simply say "whatever".
Many years ago when I was a Girl Guide we had a Captain who would get quite angry if you did something half hearted and then said 'that'll do'. 'No, that won't do' she'd say 'either try to do your best to do a good job or don't bother'. It rubbed off because I now say it to my Guides and Brownies, one must endeavour to do a good job no matter what it is.
Check out a book titled "BO: karate weapon of self defense" by Fumio Demura. I've had this book for over 35 years and still reference it.
lklawson
Grandmaster
As a generic potential student, why would I care? Whatever works means whatever works. If a person is a "whatever works" person, then they don't particularly care if it's pieces-parts from other martial arts or cultures. If it works, then it works.
And that doesn't particularly harm anything except for the people who are very very concerned that what they consider an "important" cultural artifact might get lost in favor of something that "works" more reliably.All you have to do is look around at the plethora of American karate or ninja schools that purport to be Japanese arts. Their usage and pronunciation of Japanese words in their arts are sometimes laughably ridiculous. I never said that it would "hurt" people, I merely said that settling for "whatever works" rather than what is correct will lead to degradation of what is being taught, whether it is actual techniques or simple pronunciation. I believe that if someone is going to teach an art that uses terminology in a foreign language, then they should use it correctly. If a person isn't interested in using it correctly, then they should use their native language rather than incorrectly using a foreign language.
In my opinion, we should all make it a habit to strive for excellence, and never to strive for "whatever".
Of course, that's just my opinion. Others may simply say "whatever".
Personally, I'm kinda agnostic on the subject of staff fighting and staff styles. I see a place for really hard core traditionalists who are practicing a cultural artifact regardless of whether or not it has any relevance at all to anything. I also see a place for 100% practical "whatever works" practitioners who are free to call it everything from "Bo Staff" to "big wooden dildo" to "long beat'n stick."
And when those really hard core traditionalists complain that tradition is being flouted and lost through the actions of the "whatever works" practicalists, it amuses me.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Please don't say that because you know there is always that one person who says what if.... and I really don't think A&E medics are going to be pleased at removing a big wooden dildo from anywhere.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Overall i can agree with your position, tho I do take some exception to one point, namely that there would be some kind of assumption that the traditional stuff is no longer relevant, which I take to mean, is not effective, does not work. In my experience, the traditional stuff in which I have had instruction does work frightfully well.
"Whatever works" may work well enough. But that traditional stuff, if properly understood and properly trained, just might work a fair bit better than that. Of course that too depends on the individual. In the end, ones mileage may vary.
I don't think Kirk's point was that traditional stuff doesn't work, rather that we shouldn't necessarily hang onto something simply because it is tradition (if we are looking to develop effective fighting skill). If the traditional works, then keep it. If not, then tradition should give way to something more effective.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Not exactly, no. What I meant to imply was that for those very hard core traditionalists who view their art as an important cultural artifact, whether or not their art "works," is "effective" in a modern fighting context (how many staff fights happen in 1st World countries?), or is relevant is, well, irrelevant. To them the art is important because it is a cultural artifact with tradition and intangible, cultural, importance. Who cares if the Mona Lisa [sic] "effective" or "works?" It's relevance to art lovers is as a cultural artifact: art. That said, who cares how often modern practitioners of Bo are likely to engage in a fight against an armour clad Samurai wielding a sword? That's not why they study the art.
But to those people who are "eh, whatever works," the idea of learning a Kata or series of techniques against a sai wielding opponent is an important distinction.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
But you are talking about something completely different. You seem to have problems with some unknown people that you've labeled as "very hard core traditionalists" and are attempting to transfer what I am saying to whatever these unknown people have told you.
My point is that if you strive for mediocrity by being satisfied with "whatever works", then what you'll end up with is mediocrity. Precision is a good thing and something that should be striven for in my opinion. If you don't share that opinion, then why would you bother to correct your students when they perform a technique incorrectly? If they don't properly engage the body when delivering a blow, it may still work just fine, despite the fact that it is incorrect. Whatever works right?
My point is that if you strive for mediocrity by being satisfied with "whatever works", then what you'll end up with is mediocrity. Precision is a good thing and something that should be striven for in my opinion. If you don't share that opinion, then why would you bother to correct your students when they perform a technique incorrectly? If they don't properly engage the body when delivering a blow, it may still work just fine, despite the fact that it is incorrect. Whatever works right?
