Block on your opponent's forearm from outside

[Wing Woo Gar]

Average people can throw 4 punches within 1 second. If one trains how to bend elbow during forearm contact, to change a punch into an elbow strike can become natural body response.

It sounds as if you and I are the only ones in this conversation who use this in this way. It doesn’t always work, but what does?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It sounds as if you and I are the only ones in this conversation who use this in this way. It doesn’t always work, but what does?

In wrestling, when A grabs on B's wrist, B can bend elbow and drops elbow on A's grabbing arm. It repeats over and over in wrestling game.

In striking, that's exactly a "forearm block, elbow strike". I'm sure it may occur in striking game if the rule allows it.

In wrestling, wrist grab is not a good idea. In striking, forearm block is also not a good idea.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

He's over blocking to a ridiculous extent, but even so he's well out of reach of an elbow strike. Were the block done correctly, and were he within range, the elbow strike would be really weak, unless the person made a big chambering movement.

I agree this is improper positioning and an unrealistic use of the motion. As far as how much power is involved, I think that in general the motion is still enough to count if the elbow makes contact. I make all of my students flick the tip of their nose at the septum, invariably the eyes close for a second and there is some reaction similar to stomping on bridge of foot. Head and hands will go toward any sudden pain in the majority of people( think of the reaction when we burn our finger or drop a weight on our foot.) We are very fragile creatures. I’m sure that some hard core fighters can ignore an elbow to the face but they are not likely to be the ones attacking people going about their daily life.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In wrestling, when A grabs on B's wrist, B can bend elbow and drops elbow on A's grabbing arm. It repeats over and over in wrestling game.

In striking, that's exactly a "forearm block, elbow strike". I'm sure it may occur in striking game if the rule allows it.

In wrestling, wrist grab is not a good idea. In striking, forearm block is also not a good idea.

Sure, I guess I try not to overthink any single motion or technique. I train to have reflexive reaction rather than some planned combo or whatever. Plans tend to fall apart quickly when opponents don’t react as expected. Too much thinking ahead never worked well for me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you punch, if your opponent blocks your forearm, you can always use your other arm to re-block his blocking arm. You then change your punch into an elbow strike. This way your blocking arm can control your opponent's blocking arm at the same time.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

When you punch, if your opponent blocks your forearm, you can always use your other arm to re-block his blocking arm. You then change your punch into an elbow strike. This way your blocking arm can control your opponent's blocking arm at the same time.

Like 6 star.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I may be the person who doesn't belong to your category.

I kick to close distance. I punch to obtain clinch. If I succeed, I move in. If I fail, I move back. To land a kick, a punch, or an elbow is not my goal, My goal is to control your leading arm.

Yep you would be the exception. Even if I'm kicking to close the distance. I still want it to land. I want every encounter with my techniques to be a painful one. I want to damage the leg as I close the distance

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yep you would be the exception. Even if I'm kicking to close the distance. I still want it to land. I want every encounter with my techniques to be a painful one. I want to damage the leg as I close the distance

Primarily Striker vs primarily wrestler?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Even if I'm kicking to close the distance. I still want it to land. I want every encounter with my techniques to be a painful one. I want to damage the leg as I close the distance

Here is my logic:

If you hold a matchbox and punch it, the matchbox will fly away. If you put matchbox on the ground and step on it, that matchbox won't go anywhere.

To kick your opponent after you have taken him down can be more effective.

 

[Rich Parsons]

You don't have to wait for your opponent's blocking arm to touch your forearm. The moment that you can see his blocking arm is moving toward your punch arm, the moment that you can start to bend your elbow, and change your punch into an elbow strike.

Either you plan ahead, or you have quick reaction.

I did plan ahead.
And I think I have a decent reaction for old man.
Or at least most people say I move to quick for a heavy old man.

I agree one doe snot need to wait.
I sees and adjust with the elbow strike to their arm or hand.
I still contend you have not dealt with the range issue, as an elbow to the head and being out that far as pictured is not going to happen without go go gadget arms or the person moving.

 

[Rich Parsons]

...

I don't know many people who know how to do this. I know that many martial arts schools touch on this but I don't think there are many who actually train how to effectively use it. I personally use it and have had it used on me in training and it's devastating even at a low power intensity.

Well maybe more people should know? *Thoughtful emoji*

Agreed. Techniques are like tools. We have to use the right one for the job. Knowing the advantages and disadvantages are extremely important. Maybe so important that one should know those before actually trying to train techniques that try make use of inside and outside blocks and redirects.

...

Many times I get the WHY? and nothing is good for enough for them.
So, i ask, "Is 1 + 1 = 2?".
Reply: Yes
Me: Why?
Them: Blank Stair
Me: There are three proofs two of which are very long and one is pictorial in example.
I'll wait until you provide me the proof before we move on.
Them: Blank stares
..
Or we can memorize / practice some of the techniques taught and we can answer the question later when you understand more.
.
Note: You in this case is generic unknown you, not anyone specific on this forum.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I still contend you have not dealt with the range issue,

The picture doesn't show the footwork. In this clip, every punch and the final elbow are all coordinated with a forward stepping.

I assume when you change your punch into an elbow strike, you will step in, so the forward stepping deal with the range issue.

 

[Rich Parsons]

The picture doesn't show the footwork. In this clip, every punch and the final elbow are all coordinated with a forward stepping.

I assume when you change your punch into an elbow strike, you will step in, so the forward stepping deal with the range issue.

Your assumption was not stated for the discussion.
I pointed out that one would not unless they stepped in.
Then you countered with not waiting for a block and just doing the elbow (* without saying anything about stepping *)
Or addressing how the opponent could move once they see you moving in.

I appreciate you following up.
The point was not clear at all.

 

[skribs]

When you block on the outside of your opponent's forearm arm, your opponent can bend his elbow and strikes his elbow on your face. Why don't many online videos have that concern? Your thought?

Every technique has a defense against it or counter to it. Some way of defeating that technique or exploiting the vulnerabilities that arise from it. There is no technique in martial arts that I am aware of that is unbeatable. If there was, everyone would use it, and it would just be a race to that one technique.

To criticize a technique for having a vulnerability is absolutely silly. To criticize a video for not explaining every possible counter to a technique is almost as silly.

If I'm going to do a video on a kick, do I need to do a 10-minute explanation before-hand about all the different ways the kick can fail? Or do I just teach the kick?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your assumption was not stated for the discussion.

You are 100% correct. You asked this question in post #2 before I mentioned "dynamic punch" in post #13.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To criticize a technique for having a vulnerability is absolutely silly.

Just because every technique has a vulnerability, the more that we discuss on it, the less that we may make mistake.

If you know that whenever your grab on your opponent's wrist, he may bend his arm, you will train how to deal with it.

 

[Holmejr]

Slip/Parry from the outside allows for spit entry, such as in boxing

Firstly, the person in the picture in the original post is demonstrating terrible technique. Don't block like that, folks.

As far as things preventing the puncher from converting their punch to an elbow when I block the outside of their forearm, there are a few factors ...

• Range. Converting the punch to an elbow is only feasible for a small subset of punches thrown at close range with a certain type of advancing footwork and energy. If someone is punching me in that way, I'm prepared to deal with it in a variety of ways.
• Distance moved for the block. In the picture, the "block" is actually a parry (redirecting rather than stopping the force). There is no reason for the defender to cross their own arm a foot and a half across the center line as the gentleman in the picture is doing. That opens him up for a lot more follow-ups besides the elbow. You only need to redirect the punch an inch or two to make it miss. A parry which only moves an inch doesn't give the space for the folding elbow to come around.
• Time. It only takes a split second to redirect a straight punch like that, after which my guard is back to its starting point. Not enough time for the opponent to advance into elbow range.
• Direction of the parry. My block has a bit of a forward component, as I'm working to occupy the centerline rather than cross my own center. If I'm occupying the centerline, there isn't really room for the elbow to come around.
• Sensitivity. After I redirect the punch, my arm is either back into guard, or else it's still in contact with the opponent's arm. If I'm still in contact, I can feel them trying to fold their elbow over and react accordingly.
• My own follow-ups. As I redirect the opponent's punch I'm either improving my own defensive position (moving back, moving off-line, etc) or setting up a counter-attack or both. Either way, it interferes with the opponent's ability to step in with an elbow.

I’m in this camp. This is what I’m most accustomed to in the FMA arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Slip/Parry from the outside allows for spit entry, such as in boxing

Since boxing doesn't allow elbow strike, do you think boxers may not pay enough attention on the elbow strike?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Slip/Parry from the outside allows for spit entry, such as in boxing

I’m in this camp. This is what I’m most accustomed to in the FMA arts.

This is all true. Which is a interesting thing because it doesn’t make any other thing untrue.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Since boxing doesn't allow elbow strike, do you think boxers may not pay enough attention on the elbow strike?

Also true. Assuming they are only into boxing as it were.