Block on your opponent's forearm from outside

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you block on the outside of your opponent's forearm arm, your opponent can bend his elbow and strikes his elbow on your face. Why don't many online videos have that concern? Your thought?

 

[Rich Parsons]

To hit with the elbow without moving would mean a much closer range then shown here.
To move in with the body, Leaning / shifting / or stepping allows the opponent to also move.
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The question I have is why not attack the fist or forearm with the elbow?
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Also if one is on the inside , one may have a to directly deal with their other hand / fist.
Inside and outside both offer advantages and disadvantages.
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On the inside yes one can have the centerline, yet if one gets them offline to you , yet you are still aligned with them then one has the power and position.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When you block on the outside of your opponent's forearm arm, your opponent can bend his elbow and strikes his elbow on your face. Why don't many online videos have that concern? Your thought?

It depends on how you block from the outside. My rule to blocking is simple. Don't block in a way that causes you to punch across your body. For me, the picture above is the wrong way to block from the outside. My guess is that they are learning and have not acquired that logic yet.

In terms of bending an elbow after having your punch redirected as shown below will not be possible if the block breaks your structure or if I use my forearm from the block to damage my opponents forearm. Remember many of us are taught that blocks are really strikes to the limbs. Once that pain hits your opponent he will forget about trying to do something as advance as turning the elbow into a strike. The only real way someone can actually be successful in using elbow strike as a counter to a block as you described is to set that that up from the beginning.

Most people who punch are dedicated to the punch. Most people who kick are dedicated to the kick. Very few people will say " I will set my punch up so he can block my punch and I can bend my arm and strike with my elbow." There's a lot of risk thinking someone will block your punch the way that you need them do and at the required distance.

I think people are more at danger of catching an elbow when grappling and trying to control the arm without establishing elbow control. I personally don't lose any sleep over it. I'll strike for arms as if my forearms are steel rods. If I'm going to block, then I might as well try to cause damage since I'm going to make contact with my opponent's arms anyway.

The question I have is why not attack the fist or forearm with the elbow?

I don't know many people who know how to do this. I know that many martial arts schools touch on this but I don't think there are many who actually train how to effectively use it. I personally use it and have had it used on me in training and it's devastating even at a low power intensity.

Also if one is on the inside , one may have a to directly deal with their other hand / fist.
Inside and outside both offer advantages and disadvantages.

Agreed. Techniques are like tools. We have to use the right one for the job. Knowing the advantages and disadvantages are extremely important. Maybe so important that one should know those before actually trying to train techniques that try make use of inside and outside blocks and redirects.

I've seen a lot of training like this. In all skill levels. Drills without the student understanding or teacher understanding of positioning

Then you have the other side where you can see in this drill where blocks outside but is our of range of any would be elbow. There is no way the punch will turn into an elbow because the punch is being pulled down vs allowing it to stay horizontal. There is just more to an outside block than pushing it out of the way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The upward block is a concern. Your opponent can drop elbow on your chest.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The upward block is a concern. Your opponent can drop elbow on your chest.

View attachment 29726

Only if you do it incorrectly or at the wrong time. Here's how I use an upward block (rising block).
1. Entry technique to close the distance - This requires forward movement
2. Striking technique. I use it med to close range to use my forearm to strike under the nose or the neck with the goal of forcing you to move your head back which causes my opponent to lose their field of vision or enables me to engage in grappling

I've tried to use it as shown in the picture and I ate a lot of punches. In Jow Ga the application is closer to grappling and redirecting than to striking. Where the arm rise in the arm is to life my opponents arms or leg.

I personally think the Rising Block is one of the most misunderstood techniques.

 

[drop bear]

The upward block is a concern. Your opponent can drop elbow on your chest.

View attachment 29726

And outward block is an issue because they could spinning elbow.

 

[drop bear]

When you block on the outside of your opponent's forearm arm, your opponent can bend his elbow and strikes his elbow on your face. Why don't many online videos have that concern? Your thought?

View attachment 29725

Because you move your head.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And outward block is an issue because they could spinning elbow.

There's a lot of opportunity to get outward blocks incorrect. If a person is planning to use them them I recommend light and honest training so that mistakes can be made. One has to be honest enough to able to say "yeah that spinning elbow would have landed" instead of "yeah if he did that I would have...." if the person can't be honest with themselves then they will make more mistakes than necessary. I don't know too many people in the kung fu world like that. Unfortunately.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And outward block is an issue because they could spinning elbow.

Who is doing the spinning elbow, the person who punches, or the person who blocks?

IMO, the best solution is do not allow your opponent to bend his elbow.

You can block on your opponent's:

1. elbow joint.
2. forearm with forward force (slide your blocking arm toward your opponent).

1 may be better than 2. But your blocking arm have to reach closer to your opponent. By using 2, as long as your forward force can prevent your opponent from bending his arm, you will be safe.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Most people who punch are dedicated to the punch. Most people who kick are dedicated to the kick.

I may be the person who doesn't belong to your category.

I kick to close distance. I punch to obtain clinch. If I succeed, I move in. If I fail, I move back. To land a kick, a punch, or an elbow is not my goal, My goal is to control your leading arm.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To hit with the elbow without moving would mean a much closer range then shown here.

You don't have to wait for your opponent's blocking arm to touch your forearm. The moment that you can see his blocking arm is moving toward your punch arm, the moment that you can start to bend your elbow, and change your punch into an elbow strike.

Either you plan ahead, or you have quick reaction.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You don't have to wait for your opponent's blocking arm to touch your forearm. The moment that you can see his blocking arm is moving toward your punch arm, the moment that you can start to bend your elbow, and change your punch into an elbow strike.

Either you plan ahead, or you have quick reaction.

Range is key here. Not everyone will shoot punches close enough to fold the elbow like that, but I do.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Range is key here. Not everyone will shoot punches close enough to fold the elbow like that, but I do.

This is why dynamic punch is more advance than static punch. It's easy to punch when your feet are on the ground. It's harder to punch when you are moving forward.

 

[drop bear]

This is why dynamic punch is more advance than static punch. It's easy to punch when your feet are on the ground. It's harder to punch when you are moving forward.

Ho fast do you think this exchange is happening?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Firstly, the person in the picture in the original post is demonstrating terrible technique. Don't block like that, folks.

As far as things preventing the puncher from converting their punch to an elbow when I block the outside of their forearm, there are a few factors ...

• Range. Converting the punch to an elbow is only feasible for a small subset of punches thrown at close range with a certain type of advancing footwork and energy. If someone is punching me in that way, I'm prepared to deal with it in a variety of ways.
• Distance moved for the block. In the picture, the "block" is actually a parry (redirecting rather than stopping the force). There is no reason for the defender to cross their own arm a foot and a half across the center line as the gentleman in the picture is doing. That opens him up for a lot more follow-ups besides the elbow. You only need to redirect the punch an inch or two to make it miss. A parry which only moves an inch doesn't give the space for the folding elbow to come around.
• Time. It only takes a split second to redirect a straight punch like that, after which my guard is back to its starting point. Not enough time for the opponent to advance into elbow range.
• Direction of the parry. My block has a bit of a forward component, as I'm working to occupy the centerline rather than cross my own center. If I'm occupying the centerline, there isn't really room for the elbow to come around.
• Sensitivity. After I redirect the punch, my arm is either back into guard, or else it's still in contact with the opponent's arm. If I'm still in contact, I can feel them trying to fold their elbow over and react accordingly.
• My own follow-ups. As I redirect the opponent's punch I'm either improving my own defensive position (moving back, moving off-line, etc) or setting up a counter-attack or both. Either way, it interferes with the opponent's ability to step in with an elbow.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Typically for me it's what I follow up with. I'll step back, or step on a diagonal forward trying to get to their back. And use head movement if I do see an elbow or another punch coming-but typically moving is enough of a change that people aren't adjusting to the block, and figuring out where I moved that the follow up isn't immediate/effective.

That said, that's also not how I block. It looks to me like he's reaching for the block, following it rather than pulling his hand back/stopping once it's blocked, and also has his other hand in a bad position. If someone were to block this way, the elbow might work out better than if they properly block. If I see a block like this, I'm also probably going to just throw essentially a pump fake, let them do their wide block, and hit the spot that's now exposed, especially with the other hand being so low.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When you block on the outside of your opponent's forearm arm, your opponent can bend his elbow and strikes his elbow on your face. Why don't many online videos have that concern? Your thought?

View attachment 29725

He's over blocking to a ridiculous extent, but even so he's well out of reach of an elbow strike. Were the block done correctly, and were he within range, the elbow strike would be really weak, unless the person made a big chambering movement.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This is why dynamic punch is more advance than static punch. It's easy to punch when your feet are on the ground. It's harder to punch when you are moving forward.

I agree 100%. I ask people if the foot is moving in coordination with the hand? Do they stop moving the feet and then punch? Or is the punch happening because the feet are moving and driving the punch? This is how someone can change the apparent trajectory of the punch during the motion.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Firstly, the person in the picture in the original post is demonstrating terrible technique. Don't block like that, folks.

As far as things preventing the puncher from converting their punch to an elbow when I block the outside of their forearm, there are a few factors ...

• Range. Converting the punch to an elbow is only feasible for a small subset of punches thrown at close range with a certain type of advancing footwork and energy. If someone is punching me in that way, I'm prepared to deal with it in a variety of ways.
• Distance moved for the block. In the picture, the "block" is actually a parry (redirecting rather than stopping the force). There is no reason for the defender to cross their own arm a foot and a half across the center line as the gentleman in the picture is doing. That opens him up for a lot more follow-ups besides the elbow. You only need to redirect the punch an inch or two to make it miss. A parry which only moves an inch doesn't give the space for the folding elbow to come around.
• Time. It only takes a split second to redirect a straight punch like that, after which my guard is back to its starting point. Not enough time for the opponent to advance into elbow range.
• Direction of the parry. My block has a bit of a forward component, as I'm working to occupy the centerline rather than cross my own center. If I'm occupying the centerline, there isn't really room for the elbow to come around.
• Sensitivity. After I redirect the punch, my arm is either back into guard, or else it's still in contact with the opponent's arm. If I'm still in contact, I can feel them trying to fold their elbow over and react accordingly.
• My own follow-ups. As I redirect the opponent's punch I'm either improving my own defensive position (moving back, moving off-line, etc) or setting up a counter-attack or both. Either way, it interferes with the opponent's ability to step in with an elbow.

Range and footwork are the keys to make it work. I agree there is no good technique being displayed here, but the concept is potentially sound. Flicking will work for the straight or jab. The elbow strike is typically the goal for me, in a punch like this my idea is to get the opponent to react, my feet are still moving off center from the feint punch. I’m fine with my elbow strike hitting the blocking arm if they opponent is fast enough to block both the punch and the elbow strike and whatever else I’m doing downstairs. In my experience, lots of people can deal with one or two things, but not three. Coordinating hands and feet without stops and starts is not something that is common. Most will either attempt to clinch or grapple when overwhelmed with strikes. There is always a counter for everything and ANYONE can get lucky. I have definitely been on both sides of this fence.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ho fast do you think this exchange is happening?

Average people can throw 4 punches within 1 second. If one trains how to bend elbow during forearm contact, to change a punch into an elbow strike can become natural body response.

My concern is since elbow strike is not allow in some MA sport, people may not train how to deal with it.

A wrestler will know that if he doesn't control his opponent's elbow joint, or upper arm, he is not really controlling his opponent's arm. But a striker may not treat this seriously.