Black belt testing

[ATC]

ok, here we go again

you do whatever works for you.

for me? this sounds like excessive, needless sadism.

there isnt enough IN tae kwon do to require an 8 hour test, much less 16 hours. Most of that time is taken up with endless reps.


Here is my favorite part: Day 2, 6 HOURS of exercise, yet only 12 minutes of fighting total.

sorry, not for me.

Fighting is done all the time in the dojang. We fight every Friday for 1.5 hours. Also if you are on the fighting team you fight 3 times a week for hours on end. However you do not push you body and mind to the limit ever except during testing. The test is more of your show of will than anything else. Also it is show that you have the knowledge as well. It is not needed to do all of those drills but it does show you heart and will power. It is easy to quit but it takes a strong mind to push until the end. After it is all said and done you do feel a great sence of accomplisment and you feel good about yourself. You feel like you have earned something rather than something just given to you.

I have seen some of the weakest minded and bodied kids really excell after their BB test. Once you push to that extent any fight or match is a piece of cake and your confidence increases 2 fold.

There was one peron on here that states that there are no fat people in his BB classes. I cannot say the same but I can tell you that the over weight ones are well slimmed down by the time they reach BB. We have had a few 200+ pounds kids (close to 300) slim down to under 180 or even lighter by the time they reach BB. One of our 3rd Dan BB instructors started when he was 12. At 12 he was 6 feet and close to 300 pounds. He is now 22 and he is 6'5" but only 225 and solid. He goes in the the Marines this summer.

You must be in shape to win any fight. You also must have the stronger will to win all fights. You must test that will as well as your techniques.

Just my .02

 

[terryl965]

I guess heavey wieght people cannot and should not do TKD, well I am retiring because I am. That is all to all you must be slim to be effective.

 

[Twin Fist]

ATC
if YOU like your program, then it is a good program for you

i will say it is not the average. and, IMO, it goes too far.

if you like it, more power to you.

Fighting is done all the time in the dojang. We fight every Friday for 1.5 hours. Also if you are on the fighting team you fight 3 times a week for hours on end. However you do not push you body and mind to the limit ever except during testing. The test is more of your show of will than anything else. Also it is show that you have the knowledge as well. It is not needed to do all of those drills but it does show you heart and will power. It is easy to quit but it takes a strong mind to push until the end. After it is all said and done you do feel a great sence of accomplisment and you feel good about yourself. You feel like you have earned something rather than something just given to you.

I have seen some of the weakest minded and bodied kids really excell after their BB test. Once you push to that extent any fight or match is a piece of cake and your confidence increases 2 fold.

There was one peron on here that states that there are no fat people in his BB classes. I cannot say the same but I can tell you that the over weight ones are well slimmed down by the time they reach BB. We have had a few 200+ pounds kids (close to 300) slim down to under 180 or even lighter by the time they reach BB. One of our 3rd Dan BB instructors started when he was 12. At 12 he was 6 feet and close to 300 pounds. He is now 22 and he is 6'5" but only 225 and solid. He goes in the the Marines this summer.

You must be in shape to win any fight. You also must have the stronger will to win all fights. You must test that will as well as your techniques.

Just my .02

 

[igillman]

Imagine that you have worked towards your physics degree for the last 4 years. You have been to the classes, learned the formulae, understood the theory, put the theory into practical use, read the history and generally immersed yourself in the world of physics for the last 4 years.

Now comes time for the exam...
Instead of there being 10 really in depth questions about physics, its history and its practical applications you find the following...
1000 Questions on basic mathematics (very simple stuff).
500 Questions on harder stuff but nothing too complex.
5 short answer questions on physics.

Would you feel cheated? Would you feel like anybody who passed that exam really understood physics or could they just do basic mathematics quickly enough for the test?

Now look at some of the black belt tests that have been posted in this thread and others in the past. How many hours are devoted to real TKD techniques? The correct stances, the correct moves, the correct kicks compared to just running and jumping? What parts of the test are very strict? Must you do 100 situps or will 99 do? If you fail them for that one missing sit up but pass them even though their technique is not 100% perfect what are your priorities?

Let's put it this way. Would you rather learn from someone who can perform perfect (or as close to perfect as you can get) techniques or someone who can do 100 push ups in a minute?

Yes, you have to be fit to be an instructor, to a certain extent. There are people in their 70's who still teach martial arts. They can no longer do 100 pushups, run a mile in under 4 minutes and sprint 50 yards in 10 seconds. But they don't have to do that to understand the techniques and to teach them well.

I am not saying that we shouldn't have fitness tests as part of a black belt test, fitness is a part of the martial art, but sometimes we may have our priorities a little screwed up.

 

[ATC]

ATC
if YOU like your program, then it is a good program for you

i will say it is not the average. and, IMO, it goes too far.

if you like it, more power to you.

No it is not average and it is not for everyone, and for some it may be too much. But that is not a bad thing.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I will not criticize anyone's test here. Each is designed to prove the traits that are important to the instructor. And of course, each instructor is different.

I do feel that some of the seemingly excessive tests may be the result of a backlash against the pay to pass tests that are far too common. In an age when everyone has a black belt, it no longer represents what it had, thus some schools ramp up their tests in order to show that the student is not just another product of martial daycare.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

that may very well be.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have also noticed a lot of comments regarding overweight practitioners or practitioners who are not a picture of sports fitness.

Here are my unsolicited thoughts on that:

If you are promoting fitness in your literature, you had better look the part.

If you are promoting civilian self defense, then it is less important. As long as the person's weight or other issues do not prevent them from performing the techniques, then it really is not an issue.

Certainly, obesity can work against a practitioner in competition. But in a real life SD scenario, so long as he or she can effectively execute the techniques, it is less of a factor.

And for the record, I have known some very agile and even graceful overweight and downright obese people. The stereotype of overweight people being clumsy and slow is not always correct, any more than the stereotype the underweight skinny person being a weakling with no stamina.

Figure out what type of school you are and what you are promoting and make sure that you as an instructor can represent that to the greatest degree possible.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

see, Daniel is pretty sharp.

I dont bill my school as a fitness center

i say i teach SELF DEFENSE, that will make you stronger, more flexible and better co-ordinated.

In fact, i tell people that martial arts isnt good for losing weight.

cus it isnt.

 

[ATC]

In fact, i tell people that martial arts isnt good for losing weight.

cus it isnt.

That is just a matter of opinion.

 

[Twin Fist]

ok, you say so.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In fact, i tell people that martial arts isnt good for losing weight.

cus it isnt.

Well, it probably is to the extent that it gets you up off of the sofa and moving around, and certainly, regular sparring will burn calories, but other than that, no.

But a martial arts program designed to make students proficient in technique is not going to be the best solution for weight loss. It is not designed for that.

The big problem is that people substitute a karate class for what they really need: modifications in diet and an aerobics designed specifically for losing weight. This is a problem because they are using the wrong tool for the job.

Going to the dojo for fitness reasons alone is okay, I suppose, but the fitness is more of a byproduct than a goal in martial arts unless your school has specifically put fitness at the forefront, such as at ATC's school or an XMA school. There are much less expensive and much more effective ways to lose weight than martial arts.

There are people who are highly trained to help others lose weight. MA instructors are not those people.

Daniel

 

[midnight star]

Iv never lost weight due to tkd in the 7yrs iv been doing it......well...apart from the run up to my dan gradings but thats due to too mant toilet trips!! Lol

 

[igillman]

I lost between 5 and 10 lbs when I did TKD. I agree that there are better weight loss programs out there but I wanted something to get me moving, lose a few pounds and be fun to do. TKD was great for that, I got moving, lost a few pounds and had fun, what more could I ask for?

 

[StuartA]

Though in the main I agree with Daniel S.. we do around 45 mins to an hour of warm up/exercise at classes.. every class, so people do lose weight at our classes... though I dont use that as an advertisment for them really. However, all our adult classes are 2 hours long, so we have the scope for so much exercise, but its because I beleive in the "fit to fight" moto, as opposed to "join us and lose weight" type of thing!

Stuart

 

[Twin Fist]

Stuart, it isnt the TKD trainign that makes them lose weight then, it is the nearly HOUR of exercise that does that.

right?

 

[ATC]

ok, you say so.

I understand your point. Yes I can teach you a technique and that technique will not lose you weight by itself. And yes now you know a martial art technique. I now can teach you many of these techniques and thus now you know a bit of martial arts, but by knowing this you are not a martial artist. In order to be a martial artist you must be able to perform your techniques when needed. If you are out of shape and not fit you will not be able to perform any move you may know on anyone. In order to perform those moves you need to practice them. In order to be effective with any move you must be in shape. In order to win againt an opponet with any moves (most likely mutliple moves over time) you must be in better shape than your opponent.

You can not have martial arts without fitness. I know some pretty fit fat people. Just because you are so called overweight does not mean you are not fit. However if you start a martial art you will lose some weight just because each go hand in hand. The amount of fitness obtian is up to you as is the amount of weight you lose. The more you put in the more you gain and lose. You will gain fitness and lose weight. Put in little time and you gain little and lose little but you still gain and lose. The one thing I cannot understand is if you want to fight and fight well you must put in a lot of time. You can't win a fight if not in shape. I have seen countless so called Martial Artists get destroyed by fit street people just because they were not in the better shape.

Fitness and Martial Arts go hand in hand.

 

[StuartA]

Stuart, it isnt the TKD trainign that makes them lose weight then, it is the nearly HOUR of exercise that does that.

right?

Fitness is part of TKD, as much as a kick is! The fact that many schools choose not to include it is down to them (though I think they are mad not to), but that doesnt change the fact that its part of TKD.

Besides, even without the fitness part, the rest of many of our classes would help do the same anyway... all our classes produce sweat.. and sweat is calorie losing is it not?

Stuart

 

[ATC]

Stuart, it isnt the TKD trainign that makes them lose weight then, it is the nearly HOUR of exercise that does that.

right?

An hour of kicking and punching is exercise. Even if you just did forms for an hour you are getting one hell of a work out.

Martial Arts and fitness go hand in hand.

 

[Twin Fist]

You can not have martial arts without fitness. .

I disagree

the whole point was for WEAKER people to be able to protect themselves from stronger people by moving better and smarter