BJJ vs TKD...yep, let's kick the dead horse

[miguksaram]

Depends on the venue. MT probably has more TMA participating, so there's bound to be a bit of prejudice there. You will find the opposite is true on MMA forums.

In the end, it doesn't matter what some fanboy thinks on the internet. If you're happy with your style, then great. You think the Gracies care what some TKD guy on MT thinks?

Back to original topic: it doesn't matter because a real ninja would beat up any BJJ or TKD guy! So, neener, neener!

Yes, but the pirates would beat up the ninjas.

 

[Twin Fist]

I know BJJ isn't a gazillion years old but doesn't it date back to the 40's (Not sure of that date)? How can that not be treated as a TMA compared to TKD which is considered a "TMA"?

thats a very good point.

BJJ is actually a TMA, used in sport matches

funny thing is, BJJ evolved from JUDO, not jujitsu

 

[SA_BJJ]

I know BJJ isn't a gazillion years old but doesn't it date back to the 40's (Not sure of that date)? How can that not be treated as a TMA compared to TKD which is considered a "TMA"?

The real argument is actually dealing with BJJ and striking. Not specifically TKD.

I would however love to see one of those perfecthead kicks you guys love to throw....TIMBER!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SA_BJJ]

thats a very good point.

BJJ is actually a TMA, used in sport matches

funny thing is, BJJ evolved from JUDO, not jujitsu

Japanese Jiu-Jitsu was introduced to the Gracie family in Brazil in 1915 by Esai Maeda...and if you wanted to argue that: Judo is a style of Jiu Jitsu.

 

[dancingalone]

St Pierre comes from a TKD history and is arguably one of the best fighters in the world. He also understands that it takes more than just TKD to survive in the UFC.

I'm a Georges St. Pierre fan myself, but doesn't he actually have a kyokushin karate black belt not TKD?

 

[Twin Fist]

wrong again

from wiki

The art began with Mitsuyo Maeda (aka Conde Koma, or Count Combat in English), a Japanese expert judoka and member of the Kodokan. Maeda was one of five of the Kodokan's top groundwork experts that Judo's founder Kano Jigoro sent overseas to spread his art to the world. Maeda left Japan in 1904 and visited a number of countries[2] giving "jiu-do" demonstrations and accepting challenges from wrestlers, boxers, savate fighters and various other martial artists before eventually arriving in Brazil on November 14, 1914.[4]


http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/history.shtml

Maeda was a champion of Judo and a direct student of its founder, Jigoro Kano, at the Kodokan in Japan.

and now judo is a style of jujitsu?

man, i know a lot of judoka that are gonna be pissed when they find out they have been calling it the wrong name for 100 years..........

 

[SA_BJJ]

wrong again

from wiki

The art began with Mitsuyo Maeda (aka Conde Koma, or Count Combat in English), a Japanese expert judoka and member of the Kodokan. Maeda was one of five of the Kodokan's top groundwork experts that Judo's founder Kano Jigoro sent overseas to spread his art to the world. Maeda left Japan in 1904 and visited a number of countries[2] giving "jiu-do" demonstrations and accepting challenges from wrestlers, boxers, savate fighters and various other martial artists before eventually arriving in Brazil on November 14, 1914.[4]


http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/history.shtml

Maeda was a champion of Judo and a direct student of its founder, Jigoro Kano, at the Kodokan in Japan.

and now judo is a style of jujitsu?

man, i know a lot of judoka that are gonna be pissed when they find out they have been calling it the wrong name for 100 years..........

Just incase you dont know...Wikipedia is not a very credible source...reason being that anyone can alter the info contained in there. And Yes Judo is a style of traditional Jiu Jitsu of Japan. I really dont care how many of your buddies disagree..It is fact.

And Maeda brought "Jiu Jitsu" to Gracie. And Judo was once referred to as Kano's Jiu Jitsu.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I'm a Georges St. Pierre fan myself, but doesn't he actually have a kyokushin karate black belt not TKD?

Youre absolutley right...sorry.

 

[crushing]

The real argument is actually dealing with BJJ and striking. Not specifically TKD.

I would however love to see one of those perfecthead kicks you guys love to throw....TIMBER!!!!!!!!!!

Why would you want to go out like that?

:angel:

 

[SA_BJJ]

Why would you want to go out like that?

:angel:

Oh rest assured I wouldnt be out, dip under the leg and youre going down...hahahaha...This is pointless.

 

[SA_BJJ]

wrong again

from wiki

The art began with Mitsuyo Maeda (aka Conde Koma, or Count Combat in English), a Japanese expert judoka and member of the Kodokan. Maeda was one of five of the Kodokan's top groundwork experts that Judo's founder Kano Jigoro sent overseas to spread his art to the world. Maeda left Japan in 1904 and visited a number of countries[2] giving "jiu-do" demonstrations and accepting challenges from wrestlers, boxers, savate fighters and various other martial artists before eventually arriving in Brazil on November 14, 1914.[4]


http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/history.shtml

Maeda was a champion of Judo and a direct student of its founder, Jigoro Kano, at the Kodokan in Japan.

and now judo is a style of jujitsu?

man, i know a lot of judoka that are gonna be pissed when they find out they have been calling it the wrong name for 100 years..........

www.jiu-jitsi.net
Jigoro Kano (1860--1938), a practitioner of Jiu-Jitsu, developed his own system of Jiu-Jitsu in the late 1800's, called Judo.....hmmm

 

[SA_BJJ]

"Jigoro Kano was the founder of Judo, however, Judo is simply a style of Jiu-jitsu and not a separate martial art. Kano was not the first to use the name Judo, the Jiu-jitsu schools he studied at, which would be the source of much of his Judo's techniques had used the phrase before he made it famous in the late 1800's. "


www.jiu-jitsu.net

Its all over the site that you quoted. Guess googling an art you know nothing about doesnt work very well.

 

[miguksaram]

better



what does better mean?

better for being an MMA fighter?
better for street defense?
better for getting in shape?
better for competing in the olympics?

TKD-evolved from shotkan, originally a brutal self defense based system now sometimes taught as the original, sometimes as a sport art for competition. Stand up, limited or no ground

BJJ-evolved from a sport art, Judo Perfected in sport matches in Rio, taught as a sport art with some self defense application. ground fighting, limited or no stand up

whats better?

too many variables, too many conditional modifiers to have just one answer

Ummm sorry to break this to you, but if you really want to dig into history, then you have to see that path Judo and Shotokan took are pretty much the same. Both stem from combative martial arts. Both were promoted as a physical exercise nationwide. Also Kano felt traditional JJ relyed on too much pre-arranged attacks. He develped Judo to focus more on Randori, free moving resisting opponents.

 

[dancingalone]

And Yes Judo is a style of traditional Jiu Jitsu of Japan. I really dont care how many of your buddies disagree..It is fact.

I think a good case could be built either way for classifying judo as a jujitsu art or not. Kano combined methods from several styles of jujutsu that he learned in forming what would become judo, so judo is at the very least a clear child. That said, to my recollection, Kano adopted some rules in the practice of judo to govern the conduct of matches, which is a clear movement into sport. Some jujutsu people were more than a little offended with Kano and they turned their back on him and his art. Ironically enough, judo eventually won a reputation for itself through challenge matches pitting judoka vs. jujutsu men.

Depends on whom you ask...

 

[SA_BJJ]

I think a good case could be built either way for classifying judo as a jujitsu art or not. Kano combined methods from several styles of jujutsu that he learned in forming what would become judo, so judo is at the very least a clear child. That said, to my recollection, Kano adopted some rules in the practice of judo to govern the conduct of matches, which is a clear movement into sport. Some jujutsu people were more than a little offended with Kano and they turned their back on him and his art. Ironically enough, judo eventually won a reputation for itself through challenge matches pitting judoka vs. jujutsu men.

Depends on whom you ask...

And when that happened Judo actually lost because the Jiu jitsu fighters were pulling guard and submitting them and they had no idea what to do. But why were they just pulling guard? Well they had less than impressive striking skills. I see the need for both, but the disrespect of Jiu Jitsu is disheartening.

 

[crushing]

Oh rest assured I wouldnt be out, dip under the leg and youre going down...hahahaha...This is pointless.

Exactly!

 

[SA_BJJ]

Wow this turned into a history lesson pretty quick.

 

[dancingalone]

And when that happened Judo actually lost because the Jiu jitsu fighters were pulling guard and submitting them and they had no idea what to do. But why were they just pulling guard? Well they had less than impressive striking skills. I see the need for both, but the disrespect of Jiu Jitsu is disheartening.

Actually, according the accounts I read, the judo guys did very well since they engaged in randori more frequently than the jujutsu guys did. This eventually forced a rethinking among the koryu jujutsu senseis and they adopted more 'resisting' training methods.

 

[crushing]

And when that happened Judo actually lost because the Jiu jitsu fighters were pulling guard and submitting them and they had no idea what to do. But why were they just pulling guard? Well they had less than impressive striking skills. I see the need for both, but the disrespect of Jiu Jitsu is disheartening.

Where have you seen the disrespect?

 

[Twin Fist]

judo is a seperate martial art, derived from jujitsu, yes, close to jujitsu, yes, but seperate, as Tang Soo Do is seperate from TKD

The japanese think so, and i will take thier word for it over the rabid 19 year old fan boys currently flocking to BJJ who think jujitsu dominated judo when the facts say otherwise:

"Kano devised a powerful system of new techniques and training methods, which famously culminated on June 11, 1886, in a tournament that would later be dramatized by celebrated Japanese filmmaker Akira Kurosawa (黒沢 明 Kurosawa Akira, 1910–1998), in the film "Sanshiro Sugata" (1943). In that tournament, fifteen of Kano's students faced fifteen students from a rival jujutsu school. The result was two losses, one draw, and twelve victories for the judo students."

http://www.judoinfo.com/helio.htm

"Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world in Meiji period, and performed an open fight with a different style in each country"

now even Maeda called it judo sometimes and jujitsu other times, because at that time the split wasnt as pronounced as it is now.

not to mention that carlos gracie was a 6th dan in JUDO before forming BJJ........

SABJJ , you dont know what you are talking about

you should go hang out on the website that shall not be named, they are not that concerned with actual facts there, and this site is full of people, like myself that know the actual FACTS. something you seem to be lacking in.