Billie Joe Armstrong

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

to be honest, i love when people argue about whether certain groups are punk/hardcore/screamo/emo/whatever. Because people judge it based on different things (attitude, looks, the lyrical message, the music/musical mood, even how the guitar is tuned one time) there will NEVER be an answer that people agree on XD There are those who insist hardcore punk or pop punk still count as punk, while others will say only mainstream punk is real punk (always found that idea odd). Just waiting for someone to get it confused with hipsters and say "if more than X people know about it, it's not a punk band anymore its just a sellout band"

 

[Bill Mattocks]

to be honest, i love when people argue about whether certain groups are punk/hardcore/screamo/emo/whatever. Because people judge it based on different things (attitude, looks, the lyrical message, the music/musical mood, even how the guitar is tuned one time) there will NEVER be an answer that people agree on XD There are those who insist hardcore punk or pop punk still count as punk, while others will say only mainstream punk is real punk (always found that idea odd). Just waiting for someone to get it confused with hipsters and say "if more than X people know about it, it's not a punk band anymore its just a sellout band"

If you were there, you know what it was called. If you were not there, then apply any post-punk labels you want to it, as well as to current 'punk' bands, as you wish. However, nothing changes the fact that we called it punk at the time, and punk it remains. Anything that doesn't sound like that, isn't punk. How hard is that?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If you were there, you know what it was called. If you were not there, then apply any post-punk labels you want to it, as well as to current 'punk' bands, as you wish. However, nothing changes the fact that we called it punk at the time, and punk it remains. Anything that doesn't sound like that, isn't punk. How hard is that?

So you're at a black flag concert, and they call themselves punk, and you all called them punk, so forever they are punk (I'll disregard the fact that bands change what they label themselves as sometimes), and anything that doesn't sound like that isn't punk. I go to an antiflag concert, and they call themselves punk, and we call them punk, so forever they are punk and anything that doesn't sound like that isn't punk. However, the two bands don't sound similar. See the problem here?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So you're at a black flag concert, and they call themselves punk, and you all called them punk, so forever they are punk (I'll disregard the fact that bands change what they label themselves as sometimes), and anything that doesn't sound like that isn't punk. I go to an antiflag concert, and they call themselves punk, and we call them punk, so forever they are punk and anything that doesn't sound like that isn't punk. However, the two bands don't sound similar. See the problem here?

Not from my point of view.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sex Pistols = Punk
Green Day ≠Punk

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not from my point of view.

You just stated the problem. You're only looking at it through your point of view, and refusing to recognize other people's point of view.

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't really get what you're trying to say, Kempo. Bands that were part of the movement in the mid-late 70's were Punk. Those that came after that did a similar thing in the States could also be called Punk, tho' of a somewhat different sort. Those that came along later still that took upon themselves the cachet of Punk might have played Punk 'style' but they were not part of the original movement. Doesn't mean they can't be called a 'Punk' band of course; depends really on how much they sound 'right'.

Terms change it is true - for example, a lot of what is termed Metal these days I think is more like Punk in attitude. Bands change too - the Damned and Siouxsie are a great example of that. They might have started in the Punk movement but changed direction over time.

 

[Sukerkin]

Here's another classic from the Punk days - odd that people only really remember the safety pins and spitting and 'bad attitude' from the Punk era and forget that there was an awful lot of variation the bands:

[yt]LTKORcr1jhY[/yt]

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You just stated the problem. You're only looking at it through your point of view, and refusing to recognize other people's point of view.

Is there a problem with that?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What I'm saying isn't that certain bands are punk and others aren't. People were arguing that hardcore punk bands weren't punk, because punk is purely for bands like the ramones or the sex pistols. I don't think that any band can be definitely declared NOT part of a genre in general, especially if they bands are just different subgenres of the same overall genre. A lot of it is open to interpretation, depending on how important you think attitude is over music, vice versa, which album you're going by, if the members of the bands changed, which time period you're referring to (similar to the albums thing), and above all whether YOU think they fall into that genre. If you do, then for you they do, but there's no reason to tell someone else that their music DOESN'T fall into that genre, since it's the same thing for them. If they believe it's punk, then to them it's punk. if you believe it's not punk, then to you it's not. It's way too much of a person-by-person thing for an argument about it to have any conclusive results.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What I'm saying isn't that certain bands are punk and others aren't. People were arguing that hardcore punk bands weren't punk, because punk is purely for bands like the ramones or the sex pistols. I don't think that any band can be definitely declared NOT part of a genre in general, especially if they bands are just different subgenres of the same overall genre. A lot of it is open to interpretation, depending on how important you think attitude is over music, vice versa, which album you're going by, if the members of the bands changed, which time period you're referring to (similar to the albums thing), and above all whether YOU think they fall into that genre. If you do, then for you they do, but there's no reason to tell someone else that their music DOESN'T fall into that genre, since it's the same thing for them. If they believe it's punk, then to them it's punk. if you believe it's not punk, then to you it's not. It's way too much of a person-by-person thing for an argument about it to have any conclusive results.

Not open to interpretation. Cows are cows, and horses are horses. You can call a cow a 'subgenre' of a horse if you like, but you're going to look mighty funny riding it into town. Things are what they are. Relabeling everything to avoid giving offense is simply a PC way of saying 'no labels have meaning'. Labels are labels for a reason.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes cows are cows and horses are horses, but that's not an accurate comparison. What you are saying is more like cows are animals, and cows are not horses, so therefore horses are not animals. Even though they are vastly different, they are both still animals, just different kinds of animals.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Although, even with that it's not an accurate comparison, because music is a concept, not an object.

 

[Xue Sheng]

HEY!!!!

In 1997 The Smashing Pumpkins were nominated for the AMA for the Favorite Heavy Metal/Hard Rock Artist and in 1997 AND 1998 won the Grammy for the Best Hard Rock Performance...:disgust: Did you hear me complaining?

Smashing Pumpkins are not Heavy Metal OR Hard Rock and you didn’t hear me crying about it….. Green Day is not Punk…. Is someone wants to call them punk…WHO CARES!!!! Just shows they don't know what Punk is

Besides... even IF Green Day WAS Punk….. as soon as they apologized for Billie Joe Armstrong’s outbreak…they were Punk NO MORE!!!!!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Also just want to add, as far as I know, I was the only person who called Green Day punk, and I clarified that I don't personally believe they're punk, was using the term for those who did believe that. So everyone saying they're not punk is preaching to the choir :boing2: But outside of that, thanks Xue Sheng, basically stated what I was trying to say in the entire thread xD

 

[Bill Mattocks]

HEY!!!!

In 1997 The Smashing Pumpkins were nominated for the AMA for the Favorite Heavy Metal/Hard Rock Artist and in 1997 AND 1998 won the Grammy for the Best Hard Rock Performance...:disgust: Did you hear me complaining?

I recall being somewhat shocked when Jethro Tull won in that category as well. I'm old.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877498_1877438_1877489,00.html

 

[Xue Sheng]

I recall being somewhat shocked when Jethro Tull won in that category as well. I'm old.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877498_1877438_1877489,00.html

As I recall Ian Anderson was rather shocked too... how old does that make me

 

[Xue Sheng]

Also just want to add, as far as I know, I was the only person who called Green Day punk, and I clarified that I don't personally believe they're punk, was using the term for those who did believe that. So everyone saying they're not punk is preaching to the choir :boing2: But outside of that, thanks Xue Sheng, basically stated what I was trying to say in the entire thread xD

Now if you want to say Billie Joe Armstrong is a Punk... then I would be inclined to agree

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Now if you want to say Billie Joe Armstrong is a Punk... then I would be inclined to agree

:s143:

 

[oaktree]

Hardcore Punk is a term that was first started being used in the early 1980's and was put famous by DOA.
Here is Ian Mackaye saying it himself what he plays. By the way Hardcore is short for Hardcore Punk.

http://www.silver-dragon-records.com/hardcore_punk.htm