Biggest martial art bs stories

[Hanzou]

So you are willing to say that Nothing you learned from your TMA experience translated to the stuff you do today?

The kicking was solid.

 

[Graywalker]

Nope, all of karate. Take away all of the archiac stuff, and you're left with kickboxing. If you're still learning cat stances and middle blocks, you're still stuck in the archiac fluff.

You are correct, but Kickboxing was born from Karate...it's still simply Karate sparing with a few of the techniques not being used for sport entertainment...it is not a process used for actual real life scenario's. And is extremely incomplete for self protection. But of course it was never meant for that.

Your knowledge of real Karate and it's various parts, is severly lacking. But, I am not surprised by this.

 

[Graywalker]

You can always tell, when a person has focused on a sport oriented karate, even when they deny that fact.

 

[Hanzou]

You are correct, but Kickboxing was born from Karate...it's still simply Karate sparing with a few of the techniques not being used for sport entertainment...it is not a process used for actual real life scenario's. And is extremely incomplete for self protection. But of course it was never meant for that.

Your knowledge of real Karate and it's various parts, is severly lacking. But, I am not surprised by this.

Really? I would argue that Boxing is superior to Karate hand techniques, and pretty much all hand techniques derived from Chinese martial arts (like Karate).

 

[Graywalker]

Really? I would argue that Boxing is superior to Karate hand techniques, and pretty much all hand techniques derived from Chinese martial arts (like Karate).

No, this is where you show your lack of real world experience...it is never the art that is successful, the art doesn't make a successful fighter, the fighter makes the art successful.

This is basic combat 101

 

[Buka]

Nope, all of karate. Take away all of the archiac stuff, and you're left with kickboxing. If you're still learning cat stances and middle blocks, you're still stuck in the archiac fluff.

I disagree. I've trained American Karate for a long time. The "archaic stuff" as you call it, was replaced in 73. And Kickboxing, which I also did a lot of, was a sport. Kind of a fun sport, too. And sometimes they paid you.

But American Karate is still technically Karate.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Really? I would argue that Boxing is superior to Karate hand techniques, and pretty much all hand techniques derived from Chinese martial arts (like Karate).

Well I suppose I would ask you in what context you are referring to. That is quite a broad statement that makes it seem like you feel anyone that studied boxing would have the upper hand against anyone that studied karate. Styles don't typically win fights. People do.

 

[Buka]

Well I suppose I would ask you in what context you are referring to. That is quite a broad statement that makes it seem like you feel anyone that studied boxing would have the upper hand against anyone that studied karate. Styles don't typically win fights. People do.

I agree. With one caveat. I believe that anyone training an art that not only allows repeated contact striking, but demands it, has an advantage over anyone who trains an art that doesn't. At least in a fight. There are, of course, other factors involved.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I agree. With one caveat. I believe that anyone training an art that not only allows repeated contact striking, but demands it, has an advantage over anyone who trains an art that doesn't. At least in a fight. There are, of course, other factors involved.

But with that you have to remember there are some boxing gyms that do not allow repeated contact striking. I know of at least 2 (possibly 1, since 1's management changed after COVID shutdown) in my area.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But with that you have to remember there are some boxing gyms that do not allow repeated contact striking. I know of at least 2 (possibly 1, since 1's management changed after COVID shutdown) in my area.

No contact at all?

 

[Buka]

But with that you have to remember there are some boxing gyms that do not allow repeated contact striking. I know of at least 2 (possibly 1, since 1's management changed after COVID shutdown) in my area.

I've never heard of that before. Huh.

 

[dvcochran]

Nope, all of karate. Take away all of the archiac stuff, and you're left with kickboxing. If you're still learning cat stances and middle blocks, you're still stuck in the archiac fluff.

So, let me get this right; you are bashing the style that the sport you like derived from. Yet the origination of the sport you like is completely archaic? Yea, that makes a Lot of sense. Dude.

 

[Hanzou]

So, let me get this right; you are bashing the style that the sport you like derived from. Yet the origination of the sport you like is completely archaic? Yea, that makes a Lot of sense. Dude.

If you think all forms of kickboxing derived from karate, you would be wrong.

 

[dvcochran]

If you think all forms of kickboxing derived from karate, you would be wrong.

No I do not but you framed it as such. Why is it such a big deal to say you found sport more interesting? It is that or your Karate training was lacking. That is Not typical.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No contact at all?

I've never heard of that before. Huh.

Yeah, no contact. And it's not a COVID thing. Neither competed at all. I found out about them from a boxer friend of mine back when I was looking for a new boxing club to join-he warned me both will give an intense workout, but no sparring occurs.

Out of curiosity I went to both and asked-this was a couple of years ago, but from what I remember: one of the coaches seemed to be more focused on getting into shape (but made clear it was more than just 'cardio boxing'), and that padwork is all you need without having to injure each other. The other one wasn't really clear about why they didn't spar, but it wasn't the owner I spoke to so there may have been disagreements there. Neither had their students competing anywhere.

There's also one in the city that uses boxing to help with dementia patients..I'm not sure, but I'd bet they don't do sparring as well. Nor should they.

 

[Buka]

Ah, it’s a boxercise place. Got it

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ah, it’s a boxercise place. Got it

Yup. The first one at least adamantly denied that though. And some of the people who go there think they're becoming legit fighters.

Which is kind of my point. That even boxing places can claim to be teaching you actual skills when they're not.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nope, all of karate. Take away all of the archiac stuff, and you're left with kickboxing.

My thoughts: This usually happens simply because people don't learn how to deploy the other techniques. They learn kicking and punching because it's easier to do. But the other techniques require that the practitioner really makes an effort to learn how to use them. This is just based off my own experiences, in learning how to use many of the Jow Ga techniques. Kicks and punches are easy to figure out, but the other techniques took a lot of trial and error before I could figure out how to actually use it.

Once I started learning how to use the "funky" techniques, I became less hesitant to learn more. At the beginning the learning process felt awkward, but now it's normal for me. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that we all have bad references on how Karate /Kung Fu /TMA actually works because of all of the action movies we watch. Things get much better once you can flush that out of your system.

The reason I think the Movies have an effect, is because many of the people who say TMA doesn't work often look for proof that's along the lines of what happens in movies. Also many of the demos that we see often fall along the same lines of what we see in the Movies. People who actually know how to use the techniques seem to describe it more in a practical sense, and its not as complicated. Below is an example of what I'm talking about.:

I used to think TMA were so skilled that they could block everything. Then my first Kung Fu teacher told me, that the reality is that fighter is setting up the opponent and limiting the opponents options of attacks so that it's easier to "know" what is coming next. That's when "kung fu magic" died for me. It made sense. The reason I'm able to parry jabs and other punches is because I'm having influence on where my opponent will punch next.

If I slip a punch to the right then I know a punch will come from my left because of the position of my body in relation to my opponent. Depending on the height of my slip, my opponent will either jab, hook, cross. punch straight, punch downward. So there are a limited amount of what someone can actually do in terms of punches. Especially if you only know how Jab, uppercut, and cross punch. If Hanzou only know's or used 3 types of punches then I already know what position and what angle I need to be in, in order for those punches to work or even be thrown. So what looks like incredible Kung Fu is just simple math and understanding the probabilities.

 

[JowGaWolf]

1. If you slip left, you already know what the options of attack are. You also know where you opponent may move and which punch will come next. If you only know how to throw a hook, jab, and cross, then there are limited counters to this slip. Throwing a hook after throwing a jab is not a high probability . Here we are looking at a possible punch straight punch or cross because we know that the opponent is most likely to move body position or try to cover with the arm that just threw the jab.

 

[Hanzou]

My thoughts: This usually happens simply because people don't learn how to deploy the other techniques. They learn kicking and punching because it's easier to do. But the other techniques require that the practitioner really makes an effort to learn how to use them. This is just based off my own experiences, in learning how to use many of the Jow Ga techniques. Kicks and punches are easy to figure out, but the other techniques took a lot of trial and error before I could figure out how to actually use it.

Once I started learning how to use the "funky" techniques, I became less hesitant to learn more. At the beginning the learning process felt awkward, but now it's normal for me. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that we all have bad references on how Karate /Kung Fu /TMA actually works because of all of the action movies we watch. Things get much better once you can flush that out of your system.

The reason I think the Movies have an effect, is because many of the people who say TMA doesn't work often look for proof that's along the lines of what happens in movies. Also many of the demos that we see often fall along the same lines of what we see in the Movies. People who actually know how to use the techniques seem to describe it more in a practical sense, and its not as complicated. Below is an example of what I'm talking about.:

I used to think TMA were so skilled that they could block everything. Then my first Kung Fu teacher told me, that the reality is that fighter is setting up the opponent and limiting the opponents options of attacks so that it's easier to "know" what is coming next. That's when "kung fu magic" died for me. It made sense. The reason I'm able to parry jabs and other punches is because I'm having influence on where my opponent will punch next.

If I slip a punch to the right then I know a punch will come from my left because of the position of my body in relation to my opponent. Depending on the height of my slip, my opponent will either jab, hook, cross. punch straight, punch downward. So there are a limited amount of what someone can actually do in terms of punches. Especially if you only know how Jab, uppercut, and cross punch. If Hanzou only know's or used 3 types of punches then I already know what position and what angle I need to be in, in order for those punches to work or even be thrown. So what looks like incredible Kung Fu is just simple math and understanding the probabilities.

Too much theory. Here's what I see;

Beautiful forms:

Lousy application: